Other Sports: Page 191 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

Other Sports

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Yeah, it's a waste of time IMO.

That game is as unique to America/American culture as guns.

Meatwad

pow pow pow

Bold Tone

The London market is too tiny for it to be profitable as the best they could hope for is a niche following with only a few basketball nuts going regularly. Fighting on ice is popular in Scandinavian countries but there's probably not enough money to be made there.
Another barrier is the logistics (travelling and expense).
Gridiron, lacrosse, rounders or any other american sports have no chance of gaining any traction here and they would be better off trying China who have more of a thirst for American sports.

Jens

Cam Newton is playing like shit this year.

Irishgunner

Very sad to learn about Anthony Foley.

RIP

Bold Tone

Meatwad

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/front-office-insider-the-nbas-top-50-salaries-202436701.html

The NBA’s top-50 salaries
Player Team Position 2016 salary

LeBron James CLE SF $30,963,450
Al Horford BOS C $26,540,100
*Kevin Durant GSW SF $26,540,100
James Harden HOU SG $26,540,100
Mike Conley MEM PG $26,540,100
Russell Westbrook OKC PG $26,540,100
DeMar DeRozan TOR SG $26,540,100
*Dirk Nowitzki DAL PF $25,000,000
Carmelo Anthony NYK SF $24,559,380
Damian Lillard POR PG $24,328,425
Chris Bosh MIA PF $23,741,060
*Dwyane Wade CHI SG $23,200,000
Dwight Howard ATL C $23,180,275
*Chris Paul LAC PG $22,868,827
Harrison Barnes DAL SF $22,116,750
Andre Drummond DET C $22,116,750
Chandler Parsons MEM SF $22,116,750
Hassan Whiteside MIA C $22,116,750
Anthony Davis NOP PF $22,116,750
Bradley Beal WAS SG $22,116,750
*Derrick Rose NYK PG $21,323,252
Brook Lopez BKN C $21,165,675
Kevin Love CLE PF $21,165,675
DeAndre Jordan LAC C $21,165,675
Marc Gasol MEM C $21,165,675
Nicolas Batum CHA SG $20,869,566
LaMarcus Aldridge SAS PF $20,575,005
*Blake Griffin LAC PF $20,140,839
*Paul Millsap ATL PF $20,072,033
Ryan Anderson HOU PF $18,735,364
Allen Crabbe POR SG $18,500,000
Paul George IND SF $18,314,532
Luol Deng LAL SF $18,000,000
Kyrie Irving CLE PG $17,638,063
Kawhi Leonard SAS SF $17,638,063
Jimmy Butler CHI SF $17,522,209
Tobias Harris DET PF $17,200,000
Wes Matthews DAL SF $17,145,838
*Greg Monroe MIL C $17,145,838
Enes Kanter OKC C $17,145,838
Joakim Noah NYK C $17,000,000
Bismack Biyombo ORL C $17,000,000
Evan Fournier ORL SG $17,000,000
DeMarcus Cousins SAC PF $16,957,900
John Wall WAS PG $16,957,900
Klay Thompson GSW SG $16,663,575
Evan Turner POR SF $16,393,443
*Gordon Hayward UTH SF $16,073,140
Timofey Mozgov LAL C $16,000,000
Ian Mahinmi WAS C $15,944,154

steph curry is no where to be found. that's what i love about nba contracts vs european ones. they are worth the paper they are printed on. the warriors signed curry to a below market deal because his ankles were iffy and they didn't know if he would be a permacrock. but he (or his agent) can't go crying about how he's underpaid even though he's the 2nd best player in the league. nope he has to wait for that contract to expire next summer and then he'll get paid. until then they have to make it up in endorsements.

Rex

Do you really think, all in all, James had a better season than Curry last season? Personally, I don't.

Meatwad

lebron is still a superior player. basketball is a two way game and lebron is one of the best offensive and defensive players in the game. he's easily top 3 in both categories, while steph is #1 on offense and kyrie's bitch on defense.

Bold Tone

How can you like an unfair contract?
I remember Paul Davis being frozen out of the team because he dared criticise George Graham's long ball tactics and there was nothing he could do as he was tied to a contract.
The Bosman rule tipped the balance the other way but it is fairer than it was previously.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10100134/how-the-bosman-rule-changed-football-20-years-on
As it is now, the club can say no to the player demand if they cannot afford him.

Meatwad

there is nothing unfair about nba contracts. there are probably a handful of premier league players who make more than the 50th highest paid player. ian mahinmi is probably one of the top 5 highest paid french athletes and he isn't even all that good. nba players have all the power. lebron runs the cavs, they don't call him LeGM for nothing.

contracts are a two way agreement. steph curry signed that deal because he wanted some financial security in the event that his ankle issues were a career ender and if it was golden state would still be paying him until next summer. golden state took a risk and it paid off. why would i be in favor of one sided deals? i'm a fan, not a player. i don't side with management in a labor dispute, but fair is fair. steph will be the highest paid (or #2) player in the league next year.

and jalen rose's tweet is about free agency. that's the only time you get to negotiate. there is no "oh the lakers are sniffing around lebron james and he has 2 years remaining on his contract, we have to pay him more. nope, the contract is the contract. the nba would be a hot mess if it was run like european football. give me free agency and the ability of your current team to pay you more than outside suitors any day over these transfer fees on top of wages. oh and the player has to pay his agent and manager and whoever else he wants out of his salary.

btw, if you ever wanted to see what an nba contract looks like here is gilbert arenas' contract from 2008.
http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/gilbert-arenas-child-support-order_Redacted.pdf

Bold Tone

I don't pretend to be an expert but that list seems to align more to the Jalen quote than absolute fairness.

Qwiss

There is no "unfair contract" here. If its not fair don't sign it.

Rex

Transfer market in football is broken, for sure, but I certainly don't like the aspect of trading players in US sports where a player doesn't have a say in where he plays really.

Bold Tone

That and the supposedly cost-saving salary caps.
Understandable for the fledgling MLS but, surely, NBA teams should be able to manage their finances without this nonsense.
Of course the owners love it as all the extra money goes into their billionaire pockets rather than the athletes.

Meatwad

Rex wrote:
Transfer market in football is broken, for sure, but I certainly don't like the aspect of trading players in US sports where a player doesn't have a say in where he plays really.

the player doesn't have a say? lebron james says otherwise. if steph curry wants to play in charlotte next summer he will. dwight howard also is an example of going where he wants to go.

Bold Tone wrote:
That and the supposedly cost-saving salary caps.
Understandable for the fledgling MLS but, surely, NBA teams should be able to manage their finances without this nonsense.
Of course the owners love it as all the extra money goes into their billionaire pockets rather than the athletes.

the players union like salary caps as well because without a salary cap lebron james makes $100m a year and there is less money to go around for lesser players. that top 50 list would look drastically different without a salary cap. also it's not just about managing finances, it's about trying to increase competitiveness. if they were european football clubs the knicks and the lakers wouldn't be horrible. a rust belt city like cleveland wouldn't have the best player on the planet. the best teams every year would be the knicks, lakers, bulls, celtics, rockets, 76ers. in fact the eastern conference would be the power conference with excellent depth.

Bryant

76ers would not be one of the best teams every year 😆 😆, no one goes there. Cleveland's owner is a billionaire too, he's willing to eat a massive luxury tax to keep the team together. Imagine if they didn't have a salary cap, they would've had Wade or someone else.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/16719485/cleveland-cavaliers-owe-54-million-luxury-taxes

Bold Tone

Meatwad wrote:
Rex wrote:
Transfer market in football is broken, for sure, but I certainly don't like the aspect of trading players in US sports where a player doesn't have a say in where he plays really.

the player doesn't have a say? lebron james says otherwise. if steph curry wants to play in charlotte next summer he will. dwight howard also is an example of going where he wants to go.

Bold Tone wrote:
That and the supposedly cost-saving salary caps.
Understandable for the fledgling MLS but, surely, NBA teams should be able to manage their finances without this nonsense.
Of course the owners love it as all the extra money goes into their billionaire pockets rather than the athletes.

the players union like salary caps as well because without a salary cap lebron james makes $100m a year and there is less money to go around for lesser players. that top 50 list would look drastically different without a salary cap. also it's not just about managing finances, it's about trying to increase competitiveness. if they were european football clubs the knicks and the lakers wouldn't be horrible. a rust belt city like cleveland wouldn't have the best player on the planet. the best teams every year would be the knicks, lakers, bulls, celtics, rockets, 76ers. in fact the eastern conference would be the power conference with excellent depth.

Due to the collective bargaining agreement, Lebron had to make do with a poxy salary to, artificially, turn a shit Cleveland into NBA champions. Add to that Steph Curry as you mentioned, Dirk Novicky, David West, Andre Drummond and Tim Duncan who were paid an artificially low amount, in the past few years, to avoid paying the luxury tax while owners like Mark Cuban lined their pockets due to the surge in basketball popularity.
The argument that this most "unamerican" policy allows shitholes with no money to possess basketball teams is weak as baseball is able to make the free market work. Currently with owners moving teams all over the place based on how much cities bribe them stops real fans who would stick to the team through thick and thin from developing. A football example would be Liverpool which is an absolute shithole and a basketball example would be the Knicks who have been losing the whole time i've known about basketball and that has been since the 1980s but still have a dedicated following.
Of course there are advantages the other way and even the premiership has a version of it that spreads out tv money and this protects smaller clubs so it's a question of extent and where the line is. The previous collective bargaining agreement was comprehensively won by the owners as they manipulated public opinion better than the players during the strike but i hope the players are in a stronger position to move the line to what i think is fairer bearing in mind the amount of new streams of revenue to the league.

Meatwad

Bryant wrote:
76ers would not be one of the best teams every year 😆 😆, no one goes there. Cleveland's owner is a billionaire too, he's willing to eat a massive luxury tax to keep the team together. Imagine if they didn't have a salary cap, they would've had Wade or someone else.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/16719485/cleveland-cavaliers-owe-54-million-luxury-taxes

philly is one of the largest markets in america. they suck because they can't spend their way out of mistakes. if there wasn't a salary cap the brooklyn nets would actually be pretty good as well because their version of abramovich would have spent like crazy. as it is now their recklessness has ruined their team and they won't be relevant before 2020. my point wasn't who is good now, it was that if similar to european football then being from a big rich area would equal good. from an economic perspective philly ranks 4th by gdp in america and 9th in the world and have a team in all 4 major pro leagues. spending in europe is all about wealth whether internally generated or artificially injected by a rich owner. spending in the nba is generally equal across the board and your success is dependent on the players you draft and who you can attract while not being able to offer more money.

Bold Tone wrote:
Meatwad wrote:
the player doesn't have a say? lebron james says otherwise. if steph curry wants to play in charlotte next summer he will. dwight howard also is an example of going where he wants to go.

the players union like salary caps as well because without a salary cap lebron james makes $100m a year and there is less money to go around for lesser players. that top 50 list would look drastically different without a salary cap. also it's not just about managing finances, it's about trying to increase competitiveness. if they were european football clubs the knicks and the lakers wouldn't be horrible. a rust belt city like cleveland wouldn't have the best player on the planet. the best teams every year would be the knicks, lakers, bulls, celtics, rockets, 76ers. in fact the eastern conference would be the power conference with excellent depth.

Due to the collective bargaining agreement, Lebron had to make do with a poxy salary to, artificially, turn a shit Cleveland into NBA champions. Add to that Steph Curry as you mentioned, Dirk Novicky, David West, Andre Drummond and Tim Duncan who were paid an artificially low amount, in the past few years, to avoid paying the luxury tax while owners like Mark Cuban lined their pockets due to the surge in basketball popularity.
The argument that this most "unamerican" policy allows shitholes with no money to possess basketball teams is weak as baseball is able to make the free market work. Currently with owners moving teams all over the place based on how much cities bribe them stops real fans who would stick to the team through thick and thin from developing. A football example would be Liverpool which is an absolute shithole and a basketball example would be the Knicks who have been losing the whole time i've known about basketball and that has been since the 1980s but still have a dedicated following.
Of course there are advantages the other way and even the premiership has a version of it that spreads out tv money and this protects smaller clubs so it's a question of extent and where the line is. The previous collective bargaining agreement was comprehensively won by the owners as they manipulated public opinion better than the players during the strike but i hope the players are in a stronger position to move the line to what i think is fairer bearing in mind the amount of new streams of revenue to the league.

nba players get half of the basketball related income. i'm sure they would love to go back to 57%, but they don't have as much leverage as you think because they can't hold out for years. they aren't conditioned as a group to save for a year or more of rainy days. once they start feeling the hurt of no paychecks they go running to their player reps saying WE NEED A DEAL. a union is only as strong as its weakest members and the majority of the union is weak compared to that top 50 who could sit out a while. baseball doesn't have a salary cap, but they have some of the most rigid young player contract rules. look at a player like mike trout, he's been the best player (or 2nd best) in baseball since 2012 and his salary won't be reflective of a player of his status until 2018 when he'll get paid $34m a season.

Bold Tone

I am not arguing that NBA players have it bad as being in it is a version of winning the lottery.
I also understand the control with rookie contracts as, i imagine the risks are higher as there is no track record.
We know there is a finite sum and shit players will get less but that is normal in many other sports.
I just think they could do better with the limits as the difference in earnings between no-name baseball players and household-name basketball player is the salary cap.
.

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