Premier League 25/26 Discussion : Page 187 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

Premier League 25/26 Discussion

FEBravo

There’s no way he leave if we win - perhaps he should but that’s all academic. And he’ll likely be there at the beginning of next season if we don’t. If we’re 6th at Christmas though not sure he’ll make it til the end

awooga83

Tam I think this is the point I have. I get it you win the league it feels that you just get to stay. But the board should be looking less emotively about it and ask is this person the one we believe who can deliver future honours.

For me, Arteta's style has been massively demanding, had a lot of backing and even in a season where most things have gone for us is looking like it still might not get over the line. If we make it great but if in some of the better circumstances it's still struggling most likely it'll normally be more difficult and I have no confidence it would deliver in those times. So on balance for the long term success of the team I think it's fair to question if Arteta is the right person going forwards whatever happens.

Qwiss

awooga83 But the board should be looking less emotively about it and ask is this person the one we believe who can deliver future honours.

The emotional reaction here is the call to sack him if he wins. If he actually does manage it then he'll have done the thing they want him to do. Is it more likely a new guy will do it or the guy who's just done it? The logical answer is the guy who's just done it.

However if he fails yet again then the logical conclusion is that he's a bottler who sends his bottley nature through the team.

Burnwinter

Tam Logically, the question for the board should be whether he remains the best main to turn one title into two and more, and crack of with cementing us at the top table. That's not as clear cut an answer.

I think it's a pretty clear cut situation when you consider the downside risks of sacking Arsenal's first title-winning manager in a generation. Too much pressure, logical or otherwise, on the incoming manager. We're not Madrid or Bayern.

awooga83

Qwiss I don't know looking at how we go about it I don't think his way of playing is likely to reap many trophies, he needs everything to be pretty much perfect and it rarely will be.

Tam

Qwiss The logical answer is the guy who's just done it.

That's not logic, that's emotion.

It's not sitting back and taking stock of what Arteta has done, how he's managed the squad, and how that might square against someone else coming in to manage these players. There's no analysis of the merits of Arteta's management or otherwise within your statement.

It's how Liverpool have ended up with a season where they're challenging for the Champions League places a year after winning the league.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying he should be sacked if he wins, and I get it would be a difficult decision for the board, but that's exactly their job to consider that position on an ongoing basis.

Gurgen

If he wins we may be less constipated next season. Obviously he won't be sacked then. But obviously we won't win anything either.

Gurgen

I don't think he needs everything to be perfect. We pick up plenty of points while playing like absolute shit. The problem is that we almost always play like absolute shit and that's not sustainable.

awooga83

Well I meant this is the easiest a season will be for us to win and we are still struggling. Our only real rival spent most of the season dropping more points then us giving us chance after chance to kill them. Everybody else is a bit of a mess and in that environment of relative lower pressure we are making it a close competition.

lorddulaarsenal

Bet Bournemouth are gutted

Burnwinter

Tam It's how Liverpool have ended up with a season where they're challenging for the Champions League places a year after winning the league.

Weirdly enough it was very easy to predict Liverpool dropping off massively this season and I did. Trent was off and Salah and Van Dijk weren't likely to perform at those heights again. Signing Isak was a huge threat but also a huge gamble, they lost that bet.

But even having predicted that there's no way to say it would've been smart to sack Slot. It's very arguable it's much better for them to carry the downturn in their squad through him, review him this summer, and rebuild.

As far as Arteta goes, if we don't win anything this season I'd like him out and someone else given the rebuilding funds whatever they are, but if we win big then Arteta will have earned his next round of squad investment to enjoy. We're going to need huge signings this summer, half the players we thought of as key to success look knackered. I love Ødegaard and Saka, and I also admire Havertz and Martinelli and Trossard and White, and others. I just don't reckon any of them look remotely like being reliable and elite for the next two or three seasons of these gruelling conditions. At this stage we're stumbling towards victory or defeat whichever it is.

Qwiss

Tam That's not logic, that's emotion.

Its a track record. Its proof he can do it. (if he does). Its like signing a new striker, do you sign one who has a history of scoring 20 PL goals or one who hasn't, which one is logical?

Tam It's how Liverpool have ended up with a season where they're challenging for the Champions League places a year after winning the league.

So you think it was just emotion that caused them to not sack Slot after winning the league in his first year as manager?

awooga83

Burnwinter I think that's fair and I still think it's a hard call in the moment. The only difference between Slot and Arteta is we have a lot more data on his time at Arsenal, how he's managed us, the demand he's placed and the consequences. The numerous times it's fallen apart usually towards the crunch part of the season and as I've said before even when it seemingly has been going for him luck wise he's making a real difficult go if it. In that instance I don't think it's the same as Slot you've got more evidence of him not being able to deliver. If anything he's made what would be a similar season to Liverpool's last in terms of running away and killing it so difficult that it would cause me even more worry about whether he can really do this consistently.

QuincyAbeyie

Qwiss Its a track record. Its proof he can do it. (if he does). Its like signing a new striker, do you sign one who has a history of scoring 20 PL goals or one who hasn't, which one is logical?

I agree that it'd be unfair to fire Arteta if he wins the title even though I hate his football and would like it if it happened. However, I don't agree that this is similar. Using whether Arteta wins the title to decide if he keeps his job could very well end up meaning that on the last day of the season, Arteta's job hinges on whether City win their game or not.

If the strikers in your question is one who has scored 20 PL goals once and one who has only scored 19, I don't think there's a logical answer.

Qwiss

awooga83 The numerous times it's fallen apart usually towards the crunch part of the season and as I've said before even when it seemingly has been going for him luck wise he's making a real difficult go if it.

Yeah but this is a discussion about the hypothetical of him actually getting over that hurdle. That is currently his main crippling weakness as a manager. If he can get over it now it makes perfect sense to hold onto him and go again.

Burnwinter

awooga83 The numerous times it's fallen apart usually towards the crunch part of the season

I mean, this is also relative. This time two seasons ago we were on an epic run of results and were only beaten out by a couple of regrettable slips and the Pep factor.

I'm on board with the idea there's something iffy about Arteta's ability to make decisions, improvise and motivate under match day pressures, and whatever the issue is, it's undoubtedly being amplified by our run of near misses in the league.

But here we are, top of the league, and a near miss hurts all the more because it was near ... I have yet to read anything that makes an ironclad case Arteta isn't ever going to win anything as a manager.

I'll back the guy till it's all over this season one way or another, and if it does turn out we've fucked it again, then I'll be at the front of the queue to sign the petition to turf him out.

RowJimmy

awooga83 The numerous times it's fallen apart usually towards the crunch part of the season

I don't think this is correct. I think the whole serial bottler narrative is an unjustified retrospective reconstruction.
We did not fall apart in 23-24 - we went 16-1-1 down the stretch. City were just a bit better.
Last year's injury crisis I think would be harder to attribute to Arteta's style/demands/rotation policy. This year, maybe.

awooga83

Qwiss he will have gotten over the line but the question from me is do I believe from the way he's managed the team he can get the titles again. Based on what I've seen I'd say no, his squad recruitment is poor in an attacking sense, we've relied on a very conservative style which is too demanding to maintain over seasons and the time we "potentially" would have won it we got massive breaks with luck and still made it a slog. Do I think he's going to deliver when things revert to a more normal probably more difficult season no. If I don't think he can deliver why would I want to sink more into him.

awooga83

QuincyAbeyie yeah and also I think it would be more someone who scored 15 over multiple seasons then one season gets 30 so you draw them conclusion they are definitely a 30 goal striker or maybe there are other things going on.

Gunner89

The guy was basically going defensive at home against city with that stupid rice-merino axis that never works

we ended up creating some .1xG until he brought eze on

RocktheCasbah

Gunner89 whatever you think of Mikel Merino's quality as a footballer, I think it's pretty clear by now he is not a defensive midfielder.

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