Viktor Gyokeres: Page 130 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One more in the Tolly

Viktor Gyokeres

Don Pacifico

Claudius there absolutely has to be a replacement. No point selling him without having another warm body that can stay fit.

Burnwinter

Another case of a player who might not enthuse many but is pretty hard to upgrade. Whoever came in would also be wanting to displace Havertz.

Gurgen

Osimhen is better than him, but he’s a crock with an attitude problem. So it would be a massive gamble to replace him that way. As I said I don’t like Alvarez because we have enough non scoring forwards

Burnwinter

Gurgen I would take Alvarez any day and send Gyök off to Madrid to obtain him, but I'd see Alvarez playing off the left with Havertz as much as central. It's nonsense though. I don't get any sense Alvarez would even come back to England.

JazzG

I think Alvarez could be a ~ 15 PL goal striker, which is essentially what Gyokeres is. The issue with Alvarez is whether spending the kind of money required is a good use of funds.

--

JazzG Technically the difference is night and day. I believe if he got to play in our system, Alvarez gets us at least the same number of goals as Gyokeres does, but more importantly, he'll get us significantly higher number of assists. That's another aspect of Gyokeres' overall game which I'm extremely dissatisfied with. He had one assist in the league last season. One. And his chances creation stats were simply pathetic.

The only part of his game I respect is his penalty taking. Outside of that, he's been a huge disappointment.

Gurgen

I guess you answered your own question.

JazzG

-- I agree he'd be a big improvement but it is the cost that puts me off. It sounds like Atletico would be open to taking Gyokeres which makes any potential deal very appealing,

Alvarez really wants Barca, Barca have been taking the piss so Atletico would probably not want to sell to them. Problem is the player right now only wants Barca so makes any deal difficult.

Sicario2

What’s the opportunity cost of letting go of VG when he no doubt will be better in his second season v getting an Alvarez and needing him to bed in plus the cost associated with bringing in the latter?

Is the juice worth the squeeze?

We no doubt need a marquee attacker but at what cost? Can we gamble on VG getting better in light of competition with Kai?

daredevil

Gurgen

Why even use it in the first place?

Irishgunner

Alvarez clearly doesn’t want to be here - and I don’t think our wide players have the required output to justify playing some midget technical striker

CPM

Irishgunner Good things happen when highly technical players link up in the final third. You don't need to have Kvara and Doue on the wings to justify a more technical central striker. We have way too much clumsiness on the ball in attack, that is our biggest problem. We suffer more from limited chance creation than poor finishing IMO.

USArsenal

This is all pretty much just paper talk at this point. VG ain't going anywhere, and Alvarez most certain ain't coming to Arsenal. He wants Barca, and only Barca. He doesnt want to come back to England, and i don't particularly think he's right for the Prem. And his comments about wanting to fulfill his dream (playing for Barca) should, and probably has, told the club to steer clear. I have no interest in a player that has his eyes firmly set on Barca and only Barca. He would only see Arsenal as a placeholder until he gets his dream move. And as a club, we're past being used as a stepping stone club, and are now in "destination club phase".

As much as VG gets ragged on here (after scoring 20+ goals in his first season), he basically did everything he could to finalize the deal with Arsenal. He wanted to be here, he told his agent to take less money to get it done. He broke up with his girlfriend to get here, he fought with Sporting to accept the deal from us. He did everything in his power to get to Arsenal. I know it doesn't mean that he's technically perfect, but he's the kind of player that altered his whole life to come here. That's the kind of passion for Arsenal that we want to see. And he absolutely gives his all when he plays, even if he doesnt always score.

Don Pacifico

USArsenal in terms of your second paragraph, who cares? May as well just fill the team with Carl Jenkinsons. My point is, if there's a better option available (not necessarily talking about Alvarez), then we should definitely go for them.

USArsenal

Don Pacifico

Well, i fucking care, thats who. He still scored 21 goals for us last year, in what most of you consider a shit haul for a striker (needless to say, the most goals for a striker on their debut season since Sanchez (25) and behind only him, Wrighty and Henry). And we won the title in his debut season, after us not winning it for 20+ years. All while being not fully fit, injured and having chopped and changed teams to play with due to constant injuries for our other players. Bringing up Jenkinson is just silly, he never scored 20+ goals for us, and never scored 97 goals in 2 season in Portugal. I get it, you don't like Gyokeres.

Is he the best striker on the planet? Nope, never claimed he was. I am not even his biggest fan (but i don't dislike him), but he has shown that he is still valuable to the team. If our team is somewhat healthy (i know, a stretch most of the time), that goal tally could certainly increase this season. People are deluded if you think we're gonna sell him or try to include him in a nonsensical swap deal after 1 season, to which he contributed to us winning the league and getting to the CL final.

QuincyAbeyie

USArsenal two players can score the same amount of goals without being equally good.

Don Pacifico

USArsenal Well, i fucking care, thats who. He still scored 21 goals for us last year, in what most of you consider a shit haul for a striker

The average goal tally for the leading goalscorer of a championship winning team is 21. Gyokeres got 14. All that despite his best asset (availability) affording him to miss just two games of the season.

Average GD for PL champions = +51 (we achieved +44)
Average GS for PL champions = 85 (we achieved 71)

So there's a correlation in where we're underperforming. It's not just Gyokeres but he's a big part of it. And so if there is a way to upgrade then I'd go for it. Don't need a guy to dump his girlfriend for me to believe that he'll put a shift in for us either (don't think any of our other players have done anything equivalent).

USArsenal And we won the title in his debut season, after us not winning it for 20+ years.

Correlation isn't the same as causation. Yes, Gyokeres played a role but it was his availability and little else. The PL winning animate carbon rod.

USArsenal Bringing up Jenkinson is just silly

I brought up Jenkinson because it seemed like you were putting significant stock in his determination to join the club. Whilst I'm not saying I'm keen on a player who wants to join Barca, I also think ability to play football is a far more important variable. Plus, we know Mikel well enough now to know he wouldn't recruit someone who lacked motivation, making Gyokeres dumping his girlfriend (etc.) a moot point.

Bottom line (and putting Alvarez to one side), if we can upgrade we absolutely should.

Tam

Don Pacifico Correlation isn't the same as causation.

Except when you'd rather it was, earlier in your own post.

Those stats are cherry picked to prove your point. They lack context of wider stats around chance creation, availability of key players, and general trends in goalscoring/goalscorers etc.

If you don't know those stats, you can infer he's a big part of the problem, but that's driven by agenda rather than fact. I've no doubt he is part of it, but how big a part lacks quantification.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico Correlation isn't the same as causation. Yes, Gyokeres played a role but it was his availability and little else. The PL winning animate carbon rod.

That's absolute nonsense. Why would any one bother even engaging with such ridiculous arguments?

Don Pacifico

Tam which was why I said he wasn't the only reason.

Happy to have a discussion about the other stats you mention if you're able to share them. The main point we seem to agree on is that he's a problem, so I'm happy to dispute the scale of the problem.

Ray

The problem with Gyokeres is his all round play in particular his passing on the ball is too clumsy. Watching him is a bit of a chore. But he did make vital contributions to us winning the league last year.

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