Viktor Gyokeres: Page 104 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Viktor Gyokeres

JazzG

Gurgen Maybe but we don't have those type of players in midfield. Also a very organised and aggressive press is hard to get around even if you do have good ball playing midfielders. Wengers teams got smothered and we had ballers all over the pitch.

Gurgen

I refuse to accept that we cannot do what Brighton could do with a team that cost a fraction of ours. Just be better. Hoofing is lazy and favours the defender 9/1.

daredevil

Gurgen

I don't think we're doing it out of laziness, it's clearly tiredness. We have never competed on four fronts like this.

I don't think it's just us - there are so many unforced errors in recent games from both teams. There was a hilarious 30 second spell in the game yesterday where nobody to get the ball under control. Last week being a perfect example as well - so we're not taking risks at the back anymore cause of the tiredness.

JazzG

Gurgen This is their cup final and then you consider we are fighting on four fronts with key players out it is not surprising they were able to go at us the way they did.

QuincyAbeyie

daredevil genuine question, why do you think tiredness is an issue and also seem to think it's not an advantage when we've had more rest? Isn't playing less the only way to rest?

QuincyAbeyie

daredevil do we have a different way of "going for it" than that?

Qwiss

daredevil 100%. Just look at City and Liverpool making mistakes. Look at the way Villa have completely fallen off. Then watch United in their best form all year because they are out of every other competition. Its not a coincidence.

Anyway no surprise Gyoks form dipped in this one. He's not looked good playing 2 games in a week all season. I'd leave him out of the Cup game altogether.

daredevil

QuincyAbeyie

Because a week long rest is likely only a couple days off before they're back in training, - and at this stage - it doesn't materially reduce accumulative fatigue. My point has never been that rest doesn't help - it obviously can. It's that - the discourse is ALWAYS around rest like as if that is the only variable to optimise for, like momentum, confidence, sharpness from playing more frequently doesn't matter. I get that they're a lot less tangible but I've lost count how many times I've seen a team have a long break and look completely off the pace and disjointed.

The discourse always presents rest= always good and substitutions = always good, when in fact it's a coin toss regarding actual outcomes and performance.

Gurgen

I don’t disagree I’m just saying that hoofing shouldn’t be the main game plan or ambition or reason to play anyone. Also a fit Havertz is clearly a better footballer than Gyokeres, I’m not arguing against that either.

Tactics

Gurgen I think we were simply trying to minimise risk. Consistently trying to play out of the back against a high pressing team involves risk, players can misplace simple passes closer to goal - see Raya for example nearly gifting them a goal in the opening minutes. Hoofing it is the safest thing to do. We didn't need to go for it and we were content with the scoreline, therefore, we didn't think it was worth taking any risk. To be fair, we neutralised Brighton despite them looking quite "busy"

JazzG

Gurgen I agree the hoof should only be used in last ditch cases but our on the ground football has gone to shits in recent weeks, just need to get through for now.

banduan

nah there's a combination of stuff happening.

We did play a huge amount of long balls v Brighton because we've sussed that was a bit of a weak link. Our execution left a bit to be desired though.

But, at the same time, we've had this problem of turtling up and hoofing it up the field when defending a lead for a long long while now. We are perfectly capable of playing out from the back, because we do it at 0-0. The risk isn't any different at 0-0 than at 1-0. The difference is that the players instinctively go for the non-nonsense route (which can arguably be called lazy) at that point in time because psychologically they feel it's actually worth it then to take the "no-risk" approach. It of course isn't, because just like any small team will tell ya the ball just comes right back.

Tactics

I think we are not willing to take the same risk at 0-1 as we do at 0-0. This is the same for most teams in the league/Europe. Yes, we can play out of the back, and if it goes well, it will give us the opportunity to move up the pitch and launch attacks (no guarantee they will amount to anything given the jokers we have in our forward line). However, if it goes wrong, as it sometimes does (see Raya's pass that got intercepted), we run the risk of gifting the opposition 1 v 1 chances. Is the risk really worth the reward at 0-1 ?

I think the issue we had was Gyokeres is not a target man, we looked better when Havertz came on. He was able to hold the ball up and bring others into play. We should have scored a second but alas our attack can't be relied upon.

samthegooner

I think that the lineup yesterday did Gyokeres no favors and I say that as someone that really detests watching him on a football pitch. We really sacrificed a lot of our technical ability yesterday with no Odegaard, Saliba, or Trossard on the pitch. I just do not feel like Martinelli and Gyokeres can co-exist. Both look for balls in behind and are subpar in holding the ball up. There were so many times when I felt like we were basically playing with 9 since any balls out to Gabi or Gyok were just instantly lost and we were back defending again. I have pretty much given up on Gyokeres showing us anything more than we have seen thus far but I do feel like Arteta can do a better job at setting up an attack that works with him better. That being said, I want Havertz starting in any big games from here on out so hopefully we can keep him healthy for these next 3 months.

Gazza M

nelli and gyok should never start together. only trossard is somewhat compatible with gyok. he has the sense to launch early balls in behind for gyok to chase

Rohit

Very little love for him after scoring the late opening goal last night. Understandably so. Didn't do much other than the goal, Dowman was the biggest story from the night and his goal itself was a tap in. He was however in the right place, right time to score when it mattered and what might be one of the most important goal of our season given the context.

He gets a lot of stick but he now has more goals in all competitions than scored by any striker under Arteta. He went on strike at a club where he got a lot of love, to move to Arsenal. Left his girlfriend and gave up money. Missed pre-season but came in and battled physically every week with opposition center halves in a league several times harder than where he was playing previously. We might even cut our losses and sell him in the summer, but if we end up winning the league, history will remember him as the leading scorer for Arsenal in a season when they finally ended their wait to win a league title after 22 years. Match defining or not goals are goals, and he would have made a huge contribution to our campaign.

SimplyThePest

Rohit nice post, Rohit. Well said.

Mirth

6 goals in last 8 games. His overall play leaves much to be desired but who cares at this stage. Just keep scoring.

Sicario2

I do think he’s genuinely a confidence player and he ebs and flows quite a bit due to this. When he came on I thought he was poor for the first 10/15 mins. After he scored he was a different beast. He was holding the ball better etc. He needs to start v Lerverkuson whilst he’s in this little ‘confidence zone’. The problem is he loses it too easily - needs to be more consistent. A confident Gyokeres is a different proposition altogether.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 even if that's true, he's still far too limited in terms of his football brain and ability on the ball. He hasn't helped us overcome the attacking issues we've had this season but has been a warm body to get minutes and score the occasional goal. Whether he ends the season as our top goalscorer or not will just act as an indicator of how poor our attackers have been this season. He isn't good enough to be our first choice and I'm still not really convinced he's worthy of being a squad player for us. At this point, I think Lacazette was probably more consistently useful than he has been.

RocktheCasbah

Don Pacifico cheeky bid for João Pedro in the summer?

Don Pacifico

RocktheCasbah have to say I've been surprised by him. Didn't get the links when he was at Brighton but have paid more attention to him at Chelsea and he's look pretty decent. Would take him over Gyokeres.

Gurgen

If we keep him I think he will get 20 league goals next season

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