Noni Madueke: Page 14 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Noni Madueke

JazzG

TambourineMan here's the thread https://onemoreinthetolly.com/forums/d/4836-jorginho.

From that thread

JazzG He’s a Elneny upgrade rather than a Partey one. I think he’ll be alright for us, he’s a good player. Past his best probably but he’s an intelligent player and think he will do a job when needed.

We are one of the most compact sides in the league, especially when Zinchenko comes into midfield. So we should be able to help mask his mobility issues.

This is why you people should trust me 😆 He actually turned out better than I thought he would, watching Jorginho showed me how we needed someone like him rather than Partey, he more aesthetically pleasing on the eye but we played more compact and better with Jorg, his passing not as expansive but he made better choices with the ball. Which is why I think Zubimendi will be a big success for us.

Sicario2

JazzG

Also isn't it jokes Madueke decided to fly back before World club cup finals, thought fuck this shit I'm out.

Klaus

JazzG He has the stats playing in a poor league against teams who wouldn't be good enough to play in the Championship.

This is nonsense. Primeira is better than the Championship. Having watched it there's not much between the teams in that league and Ligue 1 or Bundesliga. Just look at where the signings go: top performers in Championship, like Gyökeres, sign for the Portuguese league. A third of PSG:s current team - by far the best in the world - comes straight from the Portuguese league. How many Championship players have they, or any other top team, got on their roster? When was the last time a Championship side beat City or Barcelona?

We should make a habit of signing players from Portugal more often if anything, because right now clubs like City, PSG and Chelsea have too much of a free reign and they're picking up unbelievable talent unopposed.

Qwiss

Klaus This is nonsense. Primeira is better than the Championship. Having watched it there's not much between the teams in that league and Ligue 1 or Bundesliga.

People act like the German league especially is as good as the PL but in reality I'd agree with you, outside of the top 2-3 teams every year its a lot closer to the Portuguese league. Lique 1 is even worse. There are even a lot of Championship level teams in La Liga these days. I don't think anyone really expects Gyokeres to come into the PL and score 39 goals again but why is there an acceptance that when he moves up he'll probably score less but yet when people talk about Sesko they think his 13 Bunesdliga goals is going to translate to more PL goals?

JazzG

Klaus There are good teams there but as you get below the top 4/5 or so teams the drop off is massive.

https://www.cannonstats.com/p/arsenal-pick-gyokeres This article sums up a lot of my concerns.

Qwiss With Sesko nobody is saying he will come in and be a 25 PL goal striker, what people do believe is he could become one. He has a lot of good attributes and he is moving into the stage of his career where he could take of. I do however understand that some people want a ready made player.

31 of Gyokeres 39 league goals came against the bottom half of the league, I've looked at those clubs and I've never even heard of most of them. People want to look past it that is fine but there are plenty of legit questions about Gyokeres, this isn't some blatant can't go wrong signing that he is being made out to be.

Burnwinter

Klaus This is nonsense. Primeira is better than the Championship.

I mean, it's not just about average level but variance and distribution of talent across leagues and countries. Primeira will generally have almost all the current best footballers in Portugal, those yet to be scooped by an elite club elsewhere.

The Championship has a competitive average level, but it must have about one tenth if that of the current best footballers in England. If we were hunting for Gyökeres as our starting 9 during his Championship days I'd be way more worried.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Qwiss the standard of defending in the Bundesliga is shockingly poor from what I've seen.

invisibleman18

On the whole "weaker league" thing the goals still have to be scored right? Obviously wouldn't expect the same number of goals but 97 goals in 102 games over 2 seasons surely still points to some quality of finishing and being in the right place at the right time. I haven't really bothered with his compilations but I assume he's not picking up the ball from his own penalty area and beating the entire opposition before scoring as if playing at some pub league level so there must be some decent finishing going on. How many times do we fire a ball across the box only for there to be noone within 10 yards of it?

102 games played in 2 seasons also sounds like some robust ability to stay fit too.

Klaus

JazzG That's the case in virtually every league aside from maybe Premier League though. Most teams in Ligue 1, Bundesliga and even La Liga are weak. You think there's a big difference between St Pauli and Moreirense? Between Brest and Guimaraes?

Qwiss

JazzG this isn't some blatant can't go wrong signing that he is being made out to be.

What is? Sesko has no gaurantee to ever be good enough and you could spend £90m and the next 3 years to find that out. All signings are a risk. I've pointed to Jadon Sancho before, when he joined United people thought he was a sure thing. Who knows, Wirtz could flop too.

tazmania

He's our player now, as Gyokeres will be too. Let's support them as much as we can and hope they push us to a trophy this season.

JazzG

tazmania Absolutely, I don't want Gyokeres but I hope he makes me eat every single one of my words and does well. All I want is for Arsenal to do well.

Klaus

Burnwinter The Championship has a competitive average level, but it must have about one tenth if that of the current best footballers in England.

Sure, but what about footballers from abroad? Gyökeres isn't English.

Burnwinter

Klaus Sure, but what about footballers from abroad? Gyökeres isn't English.

Obviously not. In my opinion it doesn't change the argument: the tendency of the distribution of talent in each league doesn't care about the origins of its top measured performers.

Qwiss

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert Mustafi and Kolasinac were 2 of the best over there before we signed them.

Klaus

Qwiss I've pointed to Jadon Sancho before, when he joined United people thought he was a sure thing.

Or Solanke flopping at Spurs despite being a Premier League proven goalscorer.

JazzG

Qwiss Isak is, but he isn't for sale and if he was he'd cost £150m. This is why teams pay a premium for PL established players, they come in and make an impact straight away. Part of why Madueke is probably more expensive is he comes in and is ready to go and the coach and analysts have a large enough sample size in the PL to see how he would perform.

With Sancho I think a lot of it is down to mentality, he's definitely got the ability but mentally is not where he needs to be. He may suffer from some mental illness conditions (depression etc) or some of it could be he isn't as driven as he needs to be. I think Klaus showed in another thread a video about Gyokeres, even if I don't think his skillset is elite his mentality without a doubt is elite. Things like that will go a very long way and could make a success out of a player, we've seen incredibly talented players like Ben Arfa for example, this guy could have been as good as anyone but a completely shit attitude meant he never made it. Gyokeres being so focussed is definitely a massive positive and carries a lot of weight.

Wirtz might be a flop but from what I've seen, he has a strong mentality and elite skillset so the risk is less.

JazzG

Klaus Or Solanke flopping at Spurs despite being a Premier League proven goalscorer.

There have been plenty of PL strikers who wouldn't cut it at the top level, Defoe and Darren Bent are examples of players who did well for lesser clubs but not cut out for the elite. Funnily enough they all seem to end up at Spurs...

Klaus

Burnwinter My point wasn't even the distribution of domestic talent, it was that players on average are better in Portugal than in the Championhip and that the league attracts better players. I do think the quality is better in part because it has more domestic top talent though; it makes perfect sense, just like it makes sense for Bundesliga and Ligue 1 to have these core strengths.

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