Arteta - one more year and that’s it: Page 37 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta - one more year and that’s it

Coombs

USArsenal it was Arteta's fault, in part for selecting Merino, that we did not win the game. Also, I didn't like it nor did I think it would work. I'd rather eat humble pie, but I'll take a slice of I-told-you-so if I've earned it. Which I have.

Burnwinter

awooga83 That's why we have the reputation.

Last season's narrative was "we should've signed a striker" and you can understand why. I only wish we had.

But this summer we've spent £200m on forwards, so as Arsenal fans maybe we don't have to invest so deeply in engagement-baiting pundit talking points.

Maybe we don't have to sit there jacking off while the Tifo nerds claim Liverpool played good football and we played bad football, considering Blind Freddy knows that's bulltwang.

The football media loves a negative Arsenal narrative—it gets the people going. Too many Arsenal fans love them as well. I do myself, if it's not Arteta then it's the squad, if it's not the squad then it's the injuries or the problematic relations with PGMOL.

awooga83

Burnwinter the money being spent int forwards doesn't make it's automatically a better attacking side we have to adjust how we play and Arteta has to let the control go a bit and in these opening games I haven't seen an improvement in how we are attacking so we are yet to prove that we have changed.

I can't speak for everyone but in not interested in the media "narrative" I don't pay them attention or listen on sky etc. I have my own thoughts on where we are the limitations of the team. The was lots of talk about narrative last season as well when people raised concerns but when we actually did underperform in the league those people didn't talk about their own narrative causing them to wrongly assess what was happening.

I want Arsenal to be the best team but I don't see any benefit to deluding myself that everything is great when it's not because you have to be honest to see and improve the things you are not getting right.

Don Pacifico

Qwiss that we scored 5 goals was not evidence of us being chance creation machines. And the xG against Leeds was boosted by the fact we scored three goals from set pieces (with one being a penalty). Yes, set pieces are a viable tactic but eventually teams will figure them out so our ability to create from open play is important.

Arsenal xG from open play:

Manchester United (a) - 0.28
Leeds (h) - 0.96
Liverpool (a) - 0.33

Qwiss

Don Pacifico it's been 2 years and we are still waiting to have our set pieces figured out. Removing set piece xG is a massive reach to claim sterile possession in a 5-0 with almost 3xG. It's just an attempt to build a narrative that's contrary to the actual match. Sterile possession doesn't win penalties, that comes from a threatening run into the box. We can criticise without inventing a fantasy where we are sterile in a 5-0 win.

RocktheCasbah

Coombs okay, well let's zoom in a little then. On Sunday, we fielded a back four which had never played together. We also fielded a midfield three which had never played together. And guess what? We also fielded a front three which had...? That's right, never played together!

In an away game, at the champions, who had added £200m worth of attacking talent to go with the best player in the Premier League last season.

And we're sitting here going "oh, I don't like the football we played"? Give me a break.

Coombs

RocktheCasbah And we're sitting here going "oh, I don't like the football we played"? Give me a break.

Yes that's exactly what I'm doing, because I didn't. Should I lie and say I did?

FEBravo

On match of the day they showed a stat we had the second lowest xG from open play after Sunderland. Arteta’s vision and tactics are clear, they won’t change now. He himself talked of evolution, not revolution, so it will stay safety first, with possibly a bit of early counter attacks to use our new signings

Qwiss

FEBravo I've seen 4 different xG stats for the Liverpool match, in 3 we are ahead. We were blunt but so we're Liverpool. Silly for any broadcast to criticise us and not them.

Don Pacifico

Qwiss just to clarify, my original comments were in relation to the first half where we needed a set piece to break the deadlock against a poor Leeds. That was sterile possession. Second half, Leeds chased the game and we created more chances but it doesn't change the fact that we needed a set piece to get things going.

We were great on set pieces for the first half of last season but they completely tailed off in the second half of the season. I'd attribute that to opposition wising up to our routines. They're a useful weapon to have in our armoury but they are not fool-proof.

And even if our play lead to the set pieces we won and scored from against Leeds, I'm surprised if you don't find it the least bit concerning that in our first three matches, we didn't create good enough shooting chances outside of corners and penalties. As per the above, it's not a tactic that will always work. I think that's a problem if you expect to beat the best teams in the world and win the biggest trophies.

FEBravo

Qwiss I agree I was making a broader point about our approach and no one should expect it to change fundamentally

Meatwad

Qwiss
in a conservative game i've never seen the away team blamed and the home team absolved for not "taking it to the visitors." when you win the league you benefit from double standards. pep won many league titles with citeh having anfield stalemates, but before the game the narrative was that we had to win at anfield to prove something.

TambourineMan

Unless we finish the season with a minimum of either the CL or PL, this shit just ain't worth it. To play the way we do and lose at the same time is unacceptable, especially when we have a £1bn squad who most people acknowledge is one of the best in Europe.

Play good football, compete and fall short - acceptable.

Play shit football, compete and fall short - unacceptable

daredevil

TambourineMan

Except that's not true - Wenger was hounded out for playing good football, winning trophies but falling short in the league.

People talking about being able to accept defeat if we were an attacking side are forgetting that we've been there in the past. Also, the likeliest result when you're not completely on your game and you're away to a rival is a spanking.

Every season you see a top team going away and getting spanked 5-0 - because these clubs turn up wanting to play football and if you aren't better than your opponent on the day (unlikely given that your opponent at home is often formidable) - you get your arse handed to you. @Dom made the point that our defenders are better now - perhaps but it's not exclusive to Arsenal. You see the likes of Bayern, Barcelona, Real and City and the like spanking each other time and time again because of this desire to play football and go brave away from home.

Being cautious away from home is the one thing I wish Wenger did - it's being cautious away to Bournemouth or Newcastle where I'm more concerned.

Also, Arteta and the club have completely botched Xhaka's replacement - how the fuck can you spend £130m on Vieira, Havertz and Merino and still get it wrong.

awooga83

Yep, these discussions seem to always go to the your are saying set piece goals don't count when it's that other point they are not a very reliable and consistent way to score as you've pointed out they can suddenly fail if the delivery dips or the opposition adjust. Open play goals give you better resilience for games when it doesn't work but we've not been very good at that for a while and so far we still seem to be struggling. I saw that we were just above villa in the opening 3 games. That is concerning because if we maintain that I don't think we are winning the league.

RowJimmy

awooga83 set piece goals [...] are not a very reliable and consistent way to score [...] they can suddenly fail if the delivery dips or the opposition adjust. Open play goals give you better resilience for games when it doesn't work

is there any reason to think this is true? wouldn't turning it around make more sense?

awooga83

RowJimmy open play allows you to influence the outcome far more and the nature is a normal game it's that this is where the vast majority of your play and opportunity will be through. If you aren't set to to maximise that games will be very marginal and you open yourself to the risk of being "the better team" but nothing to show for it or get undone by variance.

Mirth

daredevil Also, Arteta and the club have completely botched Xhaka's replacement - how the fuck can you spend £130m on Vieira, Havertz and Merino and still get it wrong.

Rice is Xhaka's replacement.

daredevil

Mirth

He's had to become it because we've not been able to buy a proper LCM.

RocktheCasbah

From an actual article on the BBC, entitled "Liverpool's record breaking summer has surely made the title a formality", "The pressure on Mikel Arteta to break a barren sequence of five years. There are no excuses. He must succeed."

Errrrrr, what was the title of the article again?

RocktheCasbah

Coombs Of course not. But I think it would be helpful to consider the context around why we played how we did and not just react to it.

If we're still playing like this with Saka & Odegaard back and Eze integrated, then by all means have at it, but after a tight loss at the champions? It's not the time. We all sat wherever we were sitting talking about how tough the start to our season was - and that was before the injuries...

RowJimmy

awooga83
Right, I think this is false. The thing about "open play" is that there is much more of it. But the variance is higher, not lower. Set pieces offer more control - if you're good at it.
So to me it makes much more sense to say, we need to improve our efficiency at open play, but the variance is really high, so we need to take care to continue to dominate set pieces, that's something we can rely on much more.

Kel Varnsen

My biggest gripe with how we play is the lack transitions when we win the ball back. Our pressing is excellent, but a lot of times it looks like we press to just to regain possession and not to hit the other team on quick breaks.

JazzG

RocktheCasbah If we're still playing like this with Saka & Odegaard back and Eze integrated, then by all means have at it, but after a tight loss at the champions? It's not the time. We all sat wherever we were sitting talking about how tough the start to our season was - and that was before the injuries...

We came up against one of the best attacks in the world and had them playing conservative because they were worried about being open against us. Yeah we lost the match and that is mainly what matters but this was not some wide open Liverpool team who were there to be ripped apart. What my biggest disappointment was not bringing Eze and Odegaard on earlier, should have happened between 50-60 mins in the game instead we waited for Liverpool to make a change, which helped them get control of the game before making our changes. When we made our changes we looked better straight away. This is where Arteta needs to be more brave and on the front foot. We had a very solid 1st half and we should have approached the 2nd half with more intent and changed things earlier.

I also think he would have started Eze had Odegaard been fit. We already had Madueke and Merino in and he probably wanted Martinelli in just so there wasn't too many changes in one go and someone who is very familiar with how we play. We are going away to the champions, this wasn't away to Leeds or something. It was going to be a tough game even if we had all our players available let alone without three key players in Saka, Odegaard and Havertz.

For all this talk about how negative we were, Liverpool approached the game the exact same way yet getting a free pass from the media and even our own fans.

Kel Varnsen Agree, we need to move the ball faster and with more purpose. I think it will take a bit of time as the players get used to each other.

« Previous Page Next Page »