Arsenal vs West Ham 3PM : Page 15 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal vs West Ham 3PM

JazzG

I also can't get out of my head if we had won this game Liverpool would have been under huge pressure against City, I honestly think they might have dropped points. Instead they played without pressure knowing even if they lose they are still have a massive gap.

Claudius

JazzG city are terrible. Don’t abuse yourself

JazzG

Claudius I'm in an abusive relationship with Arsenal football club!

Rohit

I really like Arteta but when a lot of players are playing well below the level they have displayed before and are capable of, then we need to look at the coach/ manager. We do pay for his inexperience from time to time. He gets results a lot of the time. He has brought a sense of anticipation back to the club and he is ambitious but purely from a on-field performance perspective I think he may be limiting the flair this team has with his style of football. This is a big summer for Arteta. I would love to see some evolution in him too.

banduan

Coombs All the captain nonsense is all just fluff for kids to latch on to. It isn't that meaningful and it isn't the reason we lose games.

when the team does well, Odegaard is only a good captain because the team is doing well.

when the team is crap, it's crap cos Odegaard is captain.

whatever, really.

flobaba

Ode is a very good captain. He's just not a do it myself type with the quality /consistency to pull us out of tricky situations the way a De Bruyne could or would with City in the past.

awooga83

RocktheCasbah I don't know about that stat personally as the second half of the 2024 season the whole team went on a tear. Obviously Odegaard contributed to that but that was the teams recent peak I'm sure lots of players will have done well in that time it feels like an attempt to distort the data.Especially as the main criticism for him and the wider team is that they have struggled with performances this season which is where the focus should be in my view. Obviously that purple run drum the team end of last season is going to drag the numbers up. I'd be interested in that analysis for just this season.

This has been a hard moment for the team and that's when you lean on your best players, we were able to do that with Saka Ode has pretty much disappeared this season. He's certainly not at the same level as Saka and he's still not the top tier right now with output. Elite players are able to produce consistently and can navigate the tough seasons or quickly get back from them.

RocktheCasbah

awooga83 that's fair. But the man was still voted our player of the season in the two best seasons we've had in the league in 20 years, we had a lot of players we could have chosen from last season and yet he was the one.

It's completely fair to say he's had a - by recent standards - diabolical season. However, given the standard he has set in his time here, would it not be reasonable to say that there are known factors likely to have affected his form this season beyond him being, well, a bit shit?

Everyone criticising him seems to be basically saying, well he should play better. Never mind about the injury and the 3 months he missed, never mind the fact he's a new dad and got ill and then injured again and looks like he needs 3 square meals in him for a solid 3 months... He should just be better.

The world that doesn't work that way.

Arteta made Odegaard a single point of failure this season and that, for me anyway, is the issue, not a perceived lack of quality from the captain.

QuincyAbeyie

awooga83 This has been a hard moment for the team and that's when you lean on your best players, we were able to do that with Saka Ode has pretty much disappeared this season.

We weren't. Our record without Saka isn't worse than it was without Ødegaard. In fact, our PPG is higher without Saka.

(This isn't an argument that Ødegaard has been better than Saka this season, because he hasn't, but we literally weren't able to lean on Saka either. We were on course for a 67 point season in Ødegaard's absence).

awooga83

QuincyAbeyie sorry I meant Saka produced tangible outputs, it wasn't on the level of a player like Salag but the first charge of a player is can you make difference and Saka met that bar despite every opponent focusing on targeting him. It wasn't enough to change some of the matches but from a professional level he was very consistent still. Also we had a tough opening period as many pointed out that could also play into those types of stats.

Claudius

JazzG this experience hardened me

Arsenal’s challenge fell due to the big lunchtime defeats away from home. That’s the 6-3 drubbing at the Etihad, the 5-1 at Anfield, the 6-0 at Stamford Bridge and the 3-0 at Goodison Park. Not only did the four losses hurt badly in terms of the dropped points, but they had a knock-on effect on the next game. Those would be the 0-0 draw against Chelsea, the 0-0 draw against Man Utd, the 2-2 draw against Swansea and 1-1 draw against Manchester City. Notice that these are all home games where Arsenal managed 4 points out of a potential 16.

flobaba

Claudius I remember this back home. They called us draw soup.

As an aside, this is why I'm all over my man U and Chelsea friends now they are shit, even if we aren't winning anything. Because, speak now or else you might have to hold your silence indefinitely at this rate. So better talk your shit now.

Big Willie

Claudius this experience hardened me

Arsenal’s challenge fell due to the big lunchtime defeats away from home. That’s the 6-3 drubbing at the Etihad, the 5-1 at Anfield, the 6-0 at Stamford Bridge and the 3-0 at Goodison Park. Not only did the four losses hurt badly in terms of the dropped points, but they had a knock-on effect on the next game. Those would be the 0-0 draw against Chelsea, the 0-0 draw against Man Utd, the 2-2 draw against Swansea and 1-1 draw against Manchester City. Notice that these are all home games where Arsenal managed 4 points out of a potential 16.

who wrote that? The fact he says we took 4 points out of a potential 16 (really 16 ???) makes me question everything he wrote amd whether he fact checked his points.

Qwiss

Whats a world class play maker without the players in front of him to put away the chances he creates? Ode is consistently creative but we don't have the players to make the most of it. TBH he's the least of our worries and still a top 2-3 player in this squad.

awooga83

Qwiss I agree he's in the top players for the squad but I think that's another reflection we haven't built the squad as we should have. He barely drifts over to the right which limits the influence as a creative force playing balls around the edge of the penalty box. I don't necessarily think that's just him I think that's Arteta style of football right now but we need to change that and attack more centrally particularly against weaker opposition. Playing wide suits most of them. Whether that's Odegaard getting more central or bringing in another midfielder to do that. This is another test for Arteta, he's got the build wrong with this team can he adjust?

Qwiss

awooga83 Artetas set up is fine but only if he gets the right players in. He plays a pretty slow and controlled and not very committed offensive game. To get away with that you need top forward players. That he's never signed a capable centre forward completely throws the system he wants to play.

flobaba

awooga83 so, the problem I think we can identify here is that we have to rely almost exclusively on one man for midfield creativity. This is why I am of the opinion that (hot take alert) Rice, great as he is, is a bad fit for us attacking wise because I feel like he lacks the creativity and quickness of mind to see and execute the most dangerous and risky/ probing passes. He is also not efficient enough to get the number of goals from midfield he should ideally be fetching. In our system, creativity comes from midfield and full backs. Our fullbacks have been mid in that respect (hope maybe Blanco rectifies that a bit), our midfield needs someone else to whom it can pivot if one option isn't delivering. A Bernardo Silva to help out De Bruyne. A Xhaka+ Grimaldo to support Wirtz on the left. We have lots of graft, not enough craft. Even when everyone is fit and on form.

RowJimmy

The problem with Odegaard this year compared to last is almost certainly that his ankle is still bothering him. The problem with the team is the number of injuries. That issue is related to squad depth and thus overplaying, but it's not as if Salah ever comes off the field. (And Odegaard was injured by a horror tackle while playing for Norway.) Shit happens.

awooga83

RowJimmy whilst the point about Salah is fair he is not working as hard as we demand from most of our forwards and I think there should reflection on that from the coaches. I know it's not in Arteta's nature but allowing someone in the forwards to be a bit less burdened from the defensive side even if that creates "more risk" is worth considering and particularly against less quality opposition we should be able to accommodate that and still see the vast majority of games out.

Qwiss

awooga83 it does seem from Artetas latest comments he may be considering allowing that a bit more for Nwaneri. I hope he follows through because Nwaneri is a generational talent and could be absolutely devastating if managed correctly.

Burnwinter

Claudius Just a thought for the lads on X, I know they mean well, but can we see how Øde goes with Saka and another prolific forward in front of him again before he walks the plank?

Claudius

Burnwinter nah. Let’s sell him. The world is teeming with hardworking playmakers. It’s not like Roberto Olabe has a lot of work ahead of him as it is

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