Arsenal vs West Ham 3PM : Page 13 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal vs West Ham 3PM

RocktheCasbah

Said it earlier, you can't play quick football when you haven't got the guys that speed the game up, there's noone to run in behind. It's obvious.

est

RocktheCasbah Said it earlier, you can't play quick football when you haven't got the guys that speed the game up, there's noone to run in behind. It's obvious.

We have players that run behind defenders though.

Kel Varnsen

RocktheCasbah

Sure you can. There were many opportunities yesterday to play the ball in between west ham midfield and defense. Ødegaard, Rice, Merino and Nwaneri were open many times. Get the ball in there, defense overcorrects on the ball and collapses, opens space everywhere. Keeping the ball in a horseshoe pattern, on the other hand, makes it easy to defend every bit of space.

Claudius

est the three guys most likely to run in behind defenders are all injured though. They’re also 3 of the 4 who press the hell out of opponents. There are so many parts of attack that just evaporated overnight. And it’s not like this attack was generating lots of shots before this happened. We were 8th in shot generation and 5th in xG generation.

Don Pacifico

Claudius genuine question: how much pace is there to our play when we've got a fully fit squad?

It's one of the great mysteries for me that after 22/23, there seems to have been a conscious decision to slow down the way we play (presumably to minimise errors from turnovers) but that when we need to take a risk, we don't seem to be able to consistently speed things up again.

Soni don't think it's a personnel thing, it's either an Arteta thing or a mentality (ie. Players over-thinkint) thing for me.

awooga83

Very much sympathise for those that yesterday was one of the limited chances to see a game. I was interested to see what we look like attacking wise. I always thought we would be under a big ask to be able to string the results we would need to put pressure on Liverpool but it's clear we are no way going to be able to do that in my view. Also for the champions League I don't think we have enough quality going forward.

We have been unlucky but we have major deficiencies that with our squad building we neglected. It's clear Saka is on another level to anyone else and we've needed another player where goals and creativity can be generated from and none of the other players are really able to bring that singlehandedly the way he can. Even Ode doesn't look like he is a player of making that kind of difference without more quality around him.

Claudius

Don Pacifico we play a possession game. That first and foremost limits extent to which we can find space to counter. We first built around tippy tappy, and then added some physicality to vary attack. That’s who we are. It means we don’t have many opportunities for transition football until late in games when matches stretch.

I would like more speed (hence lining Isak, Ekitike, and Williams in my wish list). But we also need to either a) have less of the ball to create more transitions, or b) press way more when we lose the ba

RocktheCasbah

Kel Varnsen none of those players, with the exception of Nwaneri & and even he likes the ball to feet, are likely to run into space and onto a through ball though.

To be clear, I think it's fine to be upset and frustrated with yesterday and how the season has gone generally, but we've lost around £150-200m of quality from the frontline in the space of a few weeks. It's going to have an impact on how we play.

Kel Varnsen

Also, the reaction to Ødegaard is dumb. He isn't at his best, but still by far our most creative player while Saka is out.

Claudius

Kel Varnsen lots of fans on social media want Odegaard sold.

awooga83

Kel Varnsen I'm sceptical about some of the parameters for these kinds of stats. What contributes to them being classed as such. I saw one that Scott posted which was a pass to Timber who had a defender tight to him and his back to goal but it was given as a +2.7% GPA but seeing the incident I don't see how that's a great opportunity. There is no question Ode is underperforming this season if you were judging him on this season he wouldn't be in the top tier of midfielders.

Don Pacifico

Claudius I just don't understand why we can't make some simple changes to the way we transition when the game state demands it. As I said, it was much more prevalent a couple of seasons ago but we seem to have lost that capacity since.

Don Pacifico

Claudius more proof (if any were needed) that social media is much better at amplifying junk than anything worthwhile.

Burnwinter

Claudius Just a thought for the lads on X, I know they mean well, but can we see how Øde goes with Saka and another prolific forward in front of him again before he walks the plank?

Claudius

Don Pacifico I hate when we slow down
On transition. But I think it’s partially driven by speedy players - if you can’t find Saka, Jesus or Martinelli, you aren’t speeding away. As other piece is I suspect the team is also told to be careful with the ball on transition because when you’re moving g up the field quickly, your e tire defense falls out of shape, and a counter to your counter is when a football team is most exposed

awooga83

Don Pacifico I fully agree with this and I think it's a choice of Arteta from everything I've seen focused on minimising risk rather then looking to exploit opposition. Wet did it with Saka in the team as well we are far too lumbering when breaking in transition and that's where the bigger teams really hurt opposition.

Claudius

RocktheCasbah let’s ask the question. What would Pool look like without Salah, Darwin, Gakpo and Diaz out? It would basically be Jota and Chiesa plus a makeshift Gravenberch at 9

Kel Varnsen

RocktheCasbah

It's not even about getting it in behind the defense. Just move the ball into areas that forces the defense to collapse, which can just as well be in between def and mid. We did it for about 10-12 mins in the 2nd half. Immediately we created a few decent situations near their goal. This type of football will sometimes give up possession, but that is fine. Even good some times, as it opens up for winning the ball back high up the pitch.

Don Pacifico

Claudius to an extent. I can't help but feel there's (a) a positioning element where our forwards could be further up the pitch to stretch the opposition and (b) a mentality element where a lot of our players hold onto the ball for a while before distributing, even when there are options.

lorddulaarsenal

I’d be tempted to play Jorginho from the start now. Atleast he is forward thinking with his passing.

Rice left midfield, Odegaard right midfield.

Trossard Merino and Nwaneri as the attacking trio

RocktheCasbah

lorddulaarsenal I’d be tempted to play Jorginho from the start now. Atleast he is forward thinking with his passing.

Definitely felt like a game we could have done with him probing away - at least he knows how to do it.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

awooga83 that's why I pay zero attention to any of these new school stats bar xG (when I can be arsed). All these incel nerds stealing a fucking living in football these days.

The eye test tells you enough.

Don Pacifico

awooga83 I think there is element of it from Arteta in terms of that being our default setting but based on what he's said in post-match interviews, I think he expects a change of pace when we need a goal and the players don't seem to be able to flick that switch.

Claudius

Don Pacifico so one thing we could is what Liverpool do. They leave Salah all alone up top whenever they face an attack. It’s a big difference in how Slot sets up versus Klopp. We could do same with Saka or Martinelli.

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