Captain wrote:

He has played over 200 senior games, almost as many as Messi and Fabregas. He is young in age, but it isn't an excuse given his level of experience.

Cesc isn't immune to criticism either and Messi isn't someone a player ought to be compared to. Nasri's still a relatively young player, the measuring stick shouldn't change just because he was playing football at 16.

I'm not saying he deserves criticism, I'm just saying he never seems to get any when everyone else seems to be getting a caning.

I know we're all angry right now but lets keep our eyes on the one person that should receive the lions share of the blame.

He won't improve much more as a player. A bit more consistency is about as much as you can expect.

There's nothing wrong with Nasri per se, but if we buy the wide forward that we need this summer (and my preference is to get two), his position is as much up for grabs as Arshavin's or Walcott's.

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Captain wrote:

He has played over 200 senior games, almost as many as Messi and Fabregas. He is young in age, but it isn't an excuse given his level of experience.

Cesc isn't immune to criticism either and Messi isn't someone a player ought to be compared to. Nasri's still a relatively young player, the measuring stick shouldn't change just because he was playing football at 16.

Nobody said that Cesc is immune to criticism and nobody changed the measuring stick. The point is that experience is determined from games played, not from age and it is from that experience that you expect a certain level of performance and consistency to be established; less mistakes, better 'in game' judgement, more confidence in your own ability.

Koscielny, for instance, is 25 but his age is irrelevant on the pitch. He makes the naive errors that you would expect from a player of his relative inexperience.

Biggus wrote:

I'm not saying he deserves criticism, I'm just saying he never seems to get any when everyone else seems to be getting a caning.

I know we're all angry right now but lets keep our eyes on the one person that should receive the lions share of the blame.

Van Persie's often one of the only reasons that watching us play is anyway bearable.
When he's playing there's always a chance that he will contribute significantly, even if it's not for the full 90 minutes.

Nasri can become a reliable goal scoring midfielder, as effective as Lampard has been for Chelsea.

I don't expect him to be a playmaker or to dominate games, but he is very good at retaining possession, and if he's scoring goals regularly then he is indespensable for us. The problem for him has been a lack of movement and failing to take up goalscoring positions as well as not shooting enough over the last couple of months. However, in the last 3 games we've seen more of the Nasri for the first half of the season. His finishing was poor yesterday, but the bigger problem for me is when the player isn't even getting the chances to score. He made some great runs, and linked up brilliantly with RvP. He needs to be doing every game, and then he will be a 20 goal a season player.

I'm more worried about him not having signed a new contract yet. If he goes, we'll recoup what we paid for him, but that's about it.

Captain wrote:

The point is that experience is determined from games played, not from age and it is from that experience that you expect a certain level of performance and consistency to be established; less mistakes, better 'in game' judgement, more confidence in your own ability.

Not true, your frontal lobe part of the brain which is responsible for decision making/risk taking is not even fully developed until you are 21.
Your brain continues to mature throughout your 20's and as a consequence people tend to become more cautious and conservative in later life.
Yes some of this is down to experience but some of it is physiological.

Obviously there are certain positions in a football team that benefit more from this increased caution in decision making than others.

[quotxe='YounGunner' pid='42061' dateline='1303693335']

y va marquer wrote:

No he's not.
He was good enough to be nominated for player of the year and until his injury in February he would have merited the award.

It's true that he has been a shadow of that player of late but I would not consign him to the Denilson scrap heap and I definitely would not want to see him move to United.

[/b]

Player of the year is a joke competition anyway. Doesnt reflect the season at all. Bale won it and Nani wasnt even nominated. I could name 3/4 players who've been better this season within our squad alone.

He had 3 good months and a handful of great games and thats being kind to Nasri. He completely fell apart and returned to his unambitious and cowardly style of play when we really needed him to step it up a gear.

Like Humble Rex said he has the attributes to become a force but hes not doing enough for the team.

I never said any such thing! I am sure of
it because I think it's bullshit...

[/quote]

Biggus wrote:

Captain wrote:

The point is that experience is determined from games played, not from age and it is from that experience that you expect a certain level of performance and consistency to be established; less mistakes, better 'in game' judgement, more confidence in your own ability.

Not true, your frontal lobe part of the brain which is responsible for decision making/risk taking is not even fully developed until you are 21.
Your brain continues to mature throughout your 20's and as a consequence people tend to become more cautious and conservative in later life.
Yes some of this is down to experience but some of it is physiological.

Obviously there are certain positions in a football team that benefit more from this increased caution in decision making than others.

And yet your frontal lobe still has nothing to to with your level of experience. To be rather extreme, if I hadn't left my house until I was 50, it would make no difference to my ability to socialise and intergrate into whichever society that I found myself in.

Sorry, but this sounds like complete bullshit to me. There are loads and loads of sports people, that despite having a lot of competitive experience in their early 20's, went on to become far better as they got older. I can give examples in virtually any sport you care to mention.

Besides which, personality and maturity has a big impact on the kind of player you are, and your personality never stops developing. I know I'm a very different person and sportsman now than when I was 22/23.

Nasri has improved immensely from this time last year. There is literally no cogent argument against him continuing to improve over the next 12 months.

Just because his skills-motor skills, technique etc-might be maxxed out, so to speak, doesn't mean he cant still improve quite a bit as a player.

I can give you examples of players who didn't go on to be any better and in fact got worse. So what? It's beside the point.

If you genuinely believe that after 200 odd senior games at the highest levels a player shouldn't have established a good-very good level of consistency, cool. I disagree greatly.

Captain wrote:

He won't improve much more as a player. A bit more consistency is about as much as you can expect.

A bit more consistency is a lot more improvement in my books.

edit: let me also say that a bottler Nasri may be, a coward he is not.

Captain wrote:

Biggus wrote:

Not true, your frontal lobe part of the brain which is responsible for decision making/risk taking is not even fully developed until you are 21.
Your brain continues to mature throughout your 20's and as a consequence people tend to become more cautious and conservative in later life.
Yes some of this is down to experience but some of it is physiological.

Obviously there are certain positions in a football team that benefit more from this increased caution in decision making than others.

And yet your frontal lobe still has nothing to to with your level of experience. To be rather extreme, if I hadn't left my house until I was 50, it would make no difference to my ability to socialise and intergrate into whichever society that I found myself in.

I'm not sure I understand your example Capi, we learn and grow from observing our environment that is true, but it's also true that as we age our brains react differently, yes we lose our flexibility and creativity but we gain more level-headedness and take less stupid risks.
Obviously this has massive implications for make up of a side and should be a thread of it's own.

Tim wrote:

Sorry, but this sounds like complete bullshit to me. There are loads and loads of sports people, that despite having a lot of competitive experience in their early 20's, went on to become far better as they got older. I can give examples in virtually any sport you care to mention.

Besides which, personality and maturity has a big impact on the kind of player you are, and your personality never stops developing. I know I'm a very different person and sportsman now than when I was 22/23.

Nasri has improved immensely from this time last year. There is literally no cogent argument against him continuing to improve over the next 12 months.

I remember someone in A-M arguing in all seriousness that Cesc had reached his peak at 22.

Well he improved enormously between May 2010 and August 2010, simply by taking stock of where he was and looking at some of the things he could improve on. His progress might not be quite so drastic, but if he's hard working and analytical there's no reason whatsoever that he cant continue to improve for years yet.

And some of his progression will happen automatically as he gets older and matures.

He'd played well over 200 games before the start of this season but still managed to improve loads.

Our team is too young, thats one of the reasons why they bottle it.

Actually I can give a great example from this season that shows, regardless of the number of games you've played or your age, there are always new experiences and new challenges to overcome that improve you as a person and a player.

Sunderland away, Nasri is the best footballer and dead ball artist on the pitch. We win a penalty to win the game, Nasri ducks responsibility, Rosicky misses it and we draw. Next time we get a pen and Nasri is the senior attacking player on the pitch he steps up and puts it away.