Summer 2025 Transfer Window: Page 103 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Summer 2025 Transfer Window

Don Pacifico

Klaus I'm generally of the mindset that Edu didn't challenge Arteta enough but I'm not sure Sterling is an example of that playing out given Arteta definitely wanted to bring a proper player in on the wings.

I sincerely hope that Berta is the right fit; Arteta's influence on recruitment should remain strong but I agree that he needs a counterpart to put him in check when a signing doesn't serve our primary interests in a window (eg. I think this is why we've left Garcia on the back burner for Barca to sign).

Would be mildly amused if Inaki resigns after this window because he didn't get a new GK to work with.

Pepe LeFrits

The Sun says we've had a bid for Gyokeres turned down and are after Roony Bardghji. Young winger who just did his ACL. Sounds ideal.

Claudius

Hey guys, I've been catching up on your discussions around transfer process. I have done a fair amount of work on business deals, and I think the player transfer process is much closer to an M&A process, than it is to buying a house as some have mentioned.
Main reason is the number of financial dimensions that need to be solved. So on just the deal between player and club, you need to agree on the basic pay, performance linked-pay, signing-on bonuses, retention bonuses, exit-related clauses, non-financial benefits, governing laws.
Then between the clubs, you need to agree transfer fees, payment schedules, add-ons, sell-on clauses, buy-back clauses, condtions for a failure during the medical, agent fees, transition currency and FX protections, and the governing laws.

Parties on both sides to present their positions on each of these terms. The negotiation then becomes around what the expected total value is for each party in the negotiation, and they can flex different terms to find an outcome that creates more value for themselves without leaving the counterpart feeling cheated. So for example, on the negotation between a player and the buying club, the team might be able to lower their wage offer by availing a sign-on bonus or a performance bonus. Getting to what this basket looks like will require calibration by the team and player. The team can for example send a first offer of 100k salary, 2m signing bonus, and 30k potential bonus. If the player rejects, they can send 150k salary 1m signing bonus, and 10k potential bonus. These two offers might end up being equivalent in the team's modeling, but the player might value achieving a higher wage band ahead of future negotiations.

You are of course doing all of this in a context where players are comparing competing offers, and you are also assessing alternatives. This requires a lot of process discipline - which includes a clear plan on what you aim to pay vs the max you are prepared to pay, interactions to present packages, continuous modeling of these options. Which means lots of meetings with finance and legal, in addition to your normal scouting and data teams.

lorddulaarsenal

Chill out guys - Sancho is available

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

lorddulaarsenal and we still have his best mate, Reiss.

JazzG

Klaus With Wenger it was the club who became lazy, decided that he should have all this power and in the end he ended up being too thinly spread. Wenger enjoyed the extra power as well but it distracted him from his actual job, was like he was doing two jobs at once. It is important that Arteta gives his view on what he wants and then the director usually shortlists and they go from there. This time though the club probably had it is own work done which Berta has taken on.

I don't think Sterling was signed for that reason, I think he was simply a panic buy and probably the only option we had available to us so late in the window. Obviously as he worked with Arteta he'll know exactly what kind of personality he was. From the sound of things off the pitch Sterling was very good with our players, especially someone like MLS. Young black kid being harassed by the media and Sterling knows all about that. Obviously though he wasn't signed to be a big brother and on the pitch he flopped. Last season he scored 10 goals for Chelsea, physically looks like he has fallen off a cliff for us. It was a loan and we paid like £100k a week of his wages so not a massive financial burden on us.

Last summer we tried hardest to sign Sesko and Williams, clearly though the planning wasn't very good because it became clear neither of those signings were gonna happen and we didn't have other options lined up, this summer we seem better prepared in that respect.

The fact Edu left so soon after makes me wonder about how organised and well run things were behind the scenes.

Burnwinter

Klaus Sporting directors should have the final words in these matters because that's the reason they exist.

Yep, the sporting director is meant to stamp out any conflict of interest between the football coach and the success of the club.

The instrument to achieve that we hear about beyond budgets and squad valuation, as far as they go, is the "game model".

The club defines and owns "the game model" not the football coach, and recruitment is supposed to align with it not the coach.

The problem we've ended up with at Arsenal, because of course we did, is there's no doubt it's Arteta and no one else who owns Arsenal's game model.

Klaus

Burnwinter The club defines and owns "the game model" not the football coach, and recruitment is supposed to align with it not the coach.

Yeah I think this is another important thing that has to be implemented if you want to be successful. A team has to be flexible and evolve with the material to some degree. Makes it harder to turn down quality players just because they don't suit a very narrow way of playing too. "We cross so much that we absolutely need a lamp post on top." Maybe get a competent player and stop crossing so much instead? David Moyes and Alex McLeish certainly didn't invent the only template for football success.

JazzG

Doesn’t sound like he is all that keen on leaving if he is holding these talks.

Klaus

JazzG All contracts in Spain and Portugal have mandatory release clauses so it's probably nothing new. He's just making sure he gets bigger wages if he has to stay another year. One of the conditions for signing will probably be that he's allowed to leave for some predetermined fee below the clause.

QuincyAbeyie

Klaus One of the conditions for signing will probably be that he's allowed to leave for some predetermined fee below the clause

Why would the clause not be set to that predetermined fee in such a case?

JazzG

Klaus Athletic are usually quite tough with their clauses aren't they? I believe they'll usually demand they get activated and paid up front whereas some clubs will agree for a bit extra and spread the payments.

He wanted to join Barca but Barca have come out pretty strongly and said they won't be in for him, going as far as saying he didn't push hard enough for the move.

Klaus

QuincyAbeyie I dunno, it's usually not how things are done in Spain. I'm sure Athletic aren't crazy about him leaving, but actually lowering the clause or keeping it the same would be the same as advertising the sale of the player I guess. It would leave them with no room to negotiate either. Release clauses aren't treated the same way they are in most of Europe.

Claudius

JazzG Barca are trying to tap him up and force him to lower transfer / wage demands. Mes que un c u next tuesday behavior

RocktheCasbah

Claudius Yes.

I'm biased obviously, but I've long believed that if any team in Spain is - and I'll just use the English here to avoid confusion - "more than a club", it is Athletic and not Barcelona. They are such a huge part of the Basque identity, they're on every street in Bilbao and its surrounding areas and, in so far as a football club can have this, there is a purity about them and how they operate. I'm not personally convinced that Nico Williams would be up for swapping Bilbao for London N5, but if anyone could convince him, it might be someone else from the Basque Country - albeit an hour up the road in San Sebastian.

Gazza M

Claudius I believe barca have publicly said they've moved on from him as a transfer target

QuincyAbeyie

Klaus Maybe that's it. However, if I were to sign that contract and the club told me "we'll let you leave for amount X. In writing? No, the written amount will actually be much, much higher. Don't worry it though, we'll definitely let you leave for less than that!" I'd turn around so fast.

RocktheCasbah

Klaus . I'm sure Atletico aren't crazy about him leaving

Athletic. 😉😁

Klaus

QuincyAbeyie Sure. Usually these clauses are completely unrealistic though. I think Ceballos formally had one for over 100 million when we loaned him for instance. It's just something on paper to deter direct competitors from stealing your players during the season, like Barca did with Braithwaite a few years ago.

Claudius

Klaus Lamine just signed deal with billion euro clause.

QuincyAbeyie

Klaus yeah, that's why I always say that they just put those high clauses because that's how to make it as if they don't have a clause in the first place.

But that's also because in most cases, there isn't a pre-agreed upon amount that the club will let a player go for. In such a case, making the clause unrealistically high would tell me that "agreement" doesn't actually mean anything.

Take Lamine for example - the reason they put that billion clause in there is precisely so that there isn't any amount where they will have to let him go.

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