Summer 2025 Transfer Window: Page 168 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Summer 2025 Transfer Window

flobaba

Meatwad I'm pretty sure we have seen Martinelli play on the right while Saka was out/on occasion? Wasn't much better, was he?

Also the point of an inside forward playing on the "opposite" wing is to allow for smoother transition into a more natural shooting position. Imagine Martinelli's goal vs real Madrid if he was coming in from right side.

Coombs

flobaba not much better than an already high standard, no. And he's right footed, so playing in the right will just be fundamentally different than when Saka is there.

We play to accommodate Saka. Nothing wrong with that, because he's one of the best players on earth. Martinelli might be a tier below, but he's not our main outlet and he does his job very, very well. For me, he's only around 5-7 g/a away from the numbers we need from the LW, and the whole team suffered from a struggle to score this season. That's Arteta and the club's fault, not Martinelli's.

Meatwad

flobaba
if he plays on the right and then cuts in on his left foot i don't see how that's going to produce results (kinda like rodyrgo for real madrid last season).

if arteta is asking martinelli to be a touchline winger because cutting in on his strong foot isn't as productive as it should be then i would be in favor of rodrygo coming in to be the left winger because i know he can cut in on his right foot and be productive. but if it's a tactical quirk of arteta's (asymmetry or whatever) then i don't see how rodrygo is going to be that much more productive when asked to play like martinelli. to get the best out of a rodrygo we need the right and left side to be symmetrical in how we play.

flobaba

Coombs we give the ball to Saka more often cos he delivers more often. It's not rocket science boss.

Coombs

flobaba you're the one making it complicated just to shit on Gabby

CPM

Coombs We don't play to accommodate Saka. He is frequently double-teamed but we play through him anyway because he is our best player, and really our only player who makes the difference in tight spaces.

flobaba

Coombs lol, it's always funny that I get accused of shitting on players when it's just clear to me that they aren't good enough. That's what folks said when I mentioned Ben White's deficiencies (he wasn't composed enough on the ball and gets done too easily 1 v1), and Zinchenko's (couldn't defend 1 v 1, couldn't read the flight of balls in the air, positioning was generally poor, and misplaced passes in the final third too often) , and Ramsdale's (panics when ball comes to feet, poor at holding on to crosses and shots, poor box command)...

Just calling it how I see it. It's never personal. These guys are decent, but just not good enough.

flobaba

Meatwad I see what you're saying

I don't believe it's a tactical quirk. Yes, you hold your width when you don't have the ball, but when you're on the ball and there's space to run at your defender, you do whatever the situation demands to beat him and either put in a pass or finish.

For example, I was recently looking at some of the Eze compilations when he's coming through from the left and he's doing exactly what I would expect from my left winger. No one "instructs" you what to do in these scenarios. You do what your skill / game intelligence permits.

Meatwad

flobaba
then martinelli has to be relieved of duty because his only excuse for not being dangerous cutting in on his strong foot is "my manager dictates it."

Coombs

flobaba These guys are decent, but just not good enough.

I think Martinelli is good enough to win the league and CL starting at LW. Grass is always greener.

CPM

Coombs The fact that we play asymmetrically does not necessarily imply that Martinelli is only instructed to dribble outside and cross. It would be a strange strategy to cut out an extremely dangerous action, in the modern game perhaps the most dangerous given the increasing physical and tactical demands of the center forward. And it would be even stranger to pursue Nico Williams, Rodrygo, Eze – players who do have this capacity to cut in from the left and shoot.

Coombs

CPM ¯_(ツ)_/¯ whatever

flobaba

Coombs the team that just won it had Kvaratshelia on the left. If you think Martinelli is on the same level as the Georgian, what can I say?

Speedster

It just his football IQ he was at his best when Jesus did the thinking for him. He still closes down like a 12 year old just chasing the ball at full tilt. You look at someone a bit smarter and they read the game. Even Henry would often win the ball by working out which direction the player is going to go and catching him out.

Martinelli has lots of strengths but he's best in a counter attacking team running into space. But everyone sits back against us now. So it requires intelligent play to carve openings. He hasn't got that so arteta has smartly taught him to just put it into danger at the back post.

Against low blocks we need players who read the game really quickly.

Qwiss

Speedster It just his football IQ he was at his best when Jesus did the thinking for him. He still closes down like a 12 year old just chasing the ball at full tilt.

The way you people talk about him you must think Arteta is absolutely fucking useless for playing this guy. I mean he can't press, can't dribble, can't shoot, brain of a 12 year old, etc yet Arteta keeps playing for apparently no reason. You must be furious with him.

Coombs

It is a myth that Martinelli is not dangerous cutting inside, anyway. He does, factually, have less support to do so because the LB is inverted and the left 8 plays high up in the inside channel. It's basic physics. 2 players inside you, none outside, so you go outside.

Coombs

flobaba I don't think he is, and I've literally said that on this forum just a few days ago.

Qwiss

flobaba Took a look at your squaka thing, I figured a lot of those selectively chosen stats are a result of play style and being Real in La Liga, so I threw Saka in as well and yep, Rodrygo was still coming out on top so that to me just confirms that most of it is irrelevant. I can gaurantee for a start that Martinelli would have more assists if he was playing the ball to Mbappe and Bellingham rather than Merino and Rice.

Anyway you claim people make excuses for Martinelli but there are just as many excuses for the guys you want to replace him. The reality is people are just whingers about Martinelli. He's not an outlier like Salah but he is in the same range as pretty much everyone I've seen talked about to replace him. By all means get Rodrygo as well but if you are getting him instead it's just £90m to fail to move the needle. Its not worth it.

Qwiss

JazzG chance creation is about strikers too though. I've seen people big up Sesko beating his xG but his xG is terribly low and that worries me. Good strikers get chances, they sniff them out, they find space, make runs, they get shots off in tricky situations, etc I'm of the opinion that low xG strikers are quite often the problem themselves.

Coombs

Qwiss damn, Qwiss. Spot on takes all day every day these days.

Speedster

Qwiss

He's clearly a good player. He just doesn't have the footballing IQ to take the final step. I think he's maxed out.

As teams have sat back he struggles to find solutions.

I know you loved iwobi but he's the same low footballing IQ. They're not bad players but they've got a ceiling, ESR was the same. Pepe I know you liked him but he was an extreme example of low footballing IQ. Literally not a single manager in football came in for him when he wasn't playing.

If we're going to make the left side more of a weapon we need someone who sees the game better and can combine on that side.

Qwiss

Coombs not just these days 😉

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