⚽ Spurs vs Arsenal, League, Sunday 2pm: Page 23 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

⚽ Spurs vs Arsenal, League, Sunday 2pm

banduan

daredevil We got quite a few decisions in our favour yesterday. Timber putting his hands on Vicario, only for Vicario to get a yellow was another.

nah, the keeper was the one who squared up to him, he had a right to block Vicario whatever way. The yellow he took wasn't even a foul.

This ref is just too inexperienced for the PL. At least he's balanced - their player got a booking for stopping a restart when Kai literally kicked the ball at him.

Kel Varnsen A mixed performance. Back four and Raya were awesome, but we also gave the ball away in dangerous situations way too often. Trossard and Jorginho, in particular, were very lucky spurs wasted good counter break opportunities.

The midfield inconsistencies were to be expected. We lined up in a 4-4-2 all game, midfield was always gonna be overrun at points and Jorgi has had very little game time. Trossard's role was also fairly novel for him.

Kel Varnsen

banduan

Maybe, but the.ball losses were mostly individual mistakes. When we are missing key players, ball security becomes even more important against teams like spurs.

Burnwinter

Claudius Planning to beat City makes sense, and that's how you create outliers.

invisibleman18

Burnwinter This. Us winning the league requires them to drop points at some point and there's only twice we can have a say in that.

Claudius

Burnwinter unfortunately, in a league season, no matter how good you are, you drop points. We were much better than Brighton last week, and then we got an inexplicable red card that turned that game on its head and endangered the next game. Plus picked up a bunch of critical injuries over the next week that could still threaten the next game. These things are out of our control.

That said, in this context our away record is 10 wins and 1 draw out of 11 in 2024. We have scored 30 and conceded 3 in that time. That’s what I mean about appreciating how historically impressive this team is. We are so focused on City that each impressive win is forgotten immediately because the conversation immediately turns to “but City!” Fuck City and their 115 charge conspiracy

Clrnc

Lukazan

Great tactical summary of how we setup. On paper we pressed as a 442, but out of possession Partey was the 3rd CB and our fullbacks pressed high. Both false 9 dropped deep and wingers was the most advanced. Similar to Real Madrid with Vini and Rodrygo during big games, making it something like this.

----------------------Raya
--------Saliba Partey Gabriel
White Havertz Jorginho Trossard Timber
Saka ------------------------------- Martinelli

We also didn't mind to cede possession and play on the counter. Overall worked perfectly for us as they barely got into our box and we won through a set piece again. The old if you don't concede you have every chance to win.

Bodes well for big UCL away games.

goon

Clrnc

I’ve always felt like our wingers end up too deep when we play with a deep block, so it’s good to see us address that.

Kai, Martinelli and Saka should in theory be a real danger on the counter.

Burnwinter

Claudius unfortunately, in a league season, no matter how good you are, you drop points.

You can drop points but finish with over 90 points. That's empirically what winning the league looks like at present.

Tam

goon It feels like we've yet to really tap into the potential Havertz offers as a fulcrum for counter attacking and getting Saka and Martinelli in really dangerous positions.

daredevil

Mirth

I've flip flopped on this one. You shouldn't have to win away to your competition to win the league. Like you said, City didn't beat us at the Emirates to win the league.

However, it's City that has been dominating and it's about us, the challenger, who needed to make a statement by beating them, striking a deathly blow to their morale, taking 3 points off them and taking the title. That was easier said than done, as we could have been more attacking and got walloped like we did the season before. However, we absolutely needed to win. At the time, I didn't think so, but now it's become increasingly clear that was the case. Rodri's comments about our inability to win energising them and Neville's podcast really brought it home.

In 89, we beat Liverpool (who finished second) at Anfield.
In 91, we beat Liverpool (who finished second) at Anfield.
In 98, we beat United (who finished second) at Old Trafford.
In 02, we beat United (who finished second) at Old Trafford.
In 04, we beat Chelsea (who finished second) at Stamford Bridge.

I don't think it's all that relevant whether it's home or away, the more important point is that in a title run-in, the challengers will face each other, and the team that wins the game shifts the odds far greater in their favour to win the title. It's more than just the points, it's about landing a massive blow on their morale.

Mirth

daredevil When Liverpool - the most recent team to dethrone City - won the Premier league, they lost 4-0 at the Etihad in the same season.

Also saying that chelsea were our main rivals in 04 is reaching.

daredevil

Mirth
Liverpool were already champions by that game.

Chelsea finished second that season, so they were our closest challengers.

Again, I don't think it's absolutely necessary, but if it's a closely contested race, then I think it is.

awooga83

I think with this city as well there aren't many teams you can be sure will make them drop points so you have to be the team that makes them drop those points as the only thing you can control especially when you are the team trying to beat them to the title.

RocktheCasbah

Big Willie Martinelli really should have scored his chance and Havertz could have headed one of his chances into the net but both players, and indeed all our attackers, put a lot of effort on covering and tracking back so I'll forgive them for that.

I was listening to the ArsenalVision podcast yesterday and Clive Palmer made the observation that Martinelli made that sprint to get in for his chance, having just made a defensive sprint the other way to cover for someone. I think that's a pretty graphic illustration of your point.

Criticising Saka and Martinelli for their lack of output in an attacking sense is, well it's wrong because Saka wins the corner that he takes for the goal, but it also misses the point. They performed the roles Arteta wanted them to.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah I was listening to the ArsenalVision podcast yesterday and Clive Palmer made the observation that Martinelli made that sprint to get in for his chance, having just made a defensive sprint the other way to cover for someone. I think that's a pretty graphic illustration of your point.

Its an underrated issue for our attackers. I remember Henry saying Wenger told him to stop tracking back so much because it made him tired when he was attacking which had a negative effect on his finishing. We ask our attackers to put in a huge shift and then we expect them to be making perfect decisions with perfect execution when they are in the box. Look at Haaland, he just spends the game waiting around for a chance to score. Think of all the games last season where he didn't score and barely featured at all. You wont see Havertz disappearing like that because its not what he's asked to do.

daredevil

RocktheCasbah

That's a great point actually, and one I've long cited for Jesus having such a poor record in front of goal. When you expend so much effort fighting, contesting and defending, it undoubtedly impacts your ability to finish. If you look at Kane and Haaland, they don't expend half the effort some of our attackers do.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

RocktheCasbah
Martinelli hasn’t scored or assisted in 13 games.

I don’t care how much defensive work he does, he’s not a full back. Those numbers are appalling and he really needs to start finishing off these chances that 2 years ago was bread and butter for him (he was doing the defensive work back then too).

banduan

Thought both Martinelli and Saka were good. We shouldn't expect they'd always be outstanding every game.

Kai was equally good though I've heard a few youtube pundits and journos say he was brilliant.

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Martinelli hasn’t scored or assisted in 13 games.

Nobody is saying that statistic is good enough my dude, clearly it isn't. I was just agreeing with Big Willie's point about the amount of defensive work both wide players did with a very specific example of how the work they put in might have affected them going forward.

Big Willie

RocktheCasbah Nobody is saying that statistic is good enough my dude, clearly it isn't. I was just agreeing with Big Willie's point about the amount of defensive work both wide players did with a very specific example of how the work they put in might have affected them going forward.

You only need to look back at the biggest game of our CL history to see that. There was almost no one in the world I would have rather have seen be on the end of any of those chances we created that game than Henry but because we were down to 10 men and he had to do so much extra work than he normally does, when he got into position he wasn't able to bury his chance. Chances he would have gobbled up 100% in any other circumstance to put us 2 or even 3 ahead.

Now the caveat is that Martinelli clearly isnt Henry, neither is Saka. But you have to think the amount of work they put in affects their finishing at times, especially in the bigger games where there is more defending to do. To say otherwise is being disingenuous.

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