Summer 24: Page 18 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Summer 24

Qwiss

The last few years I was hearing how it was Wengers signings that made it hard to sell. It was easier to sell for Liverpool because they were at the top of the league with City and no one wanted someone who couldn't get into an 8th place squad, etc, etc

Now people are trying to play down young English talent like Ramsdale, Nketiah, ESR. I'll give you Nelson because he's never done anything and is massively overrated by Arsenal fans but the other 3 all have England caps, Ramsdales going to the Euros. The majority of the players we are selling are young. They are not just decent 30-somethings. This was the policy, sign young players so you can grow their value even if they don't make it here. No ones expecting a big fee for the likes of Tierney even.

Wages aren't a good excuse either. A lot of those contracts were offered in order to retain the players value. They handed Ramsdale that big new deal just a couple of months before we got Raya. Managing contracts is a big part of managing player value. Its not an out.

Clrnc

Qwiss Yeah there's always some new excuses made when in fact the circumstances are largely the same for all big clubs.

Qwiss

RowJimmy City sold us Jesus and Zinchenko for good fees. Interesting to see if we can sell them for more.

Tam

Qwiss I doubt it. Who wants to buy a left back who can't defend and a striker who can't score?

I'm being flippant there. The truth is neither are standouts in their role playing it in a conventional way in a more conventional team. Both had a fair bit of success in coming here and making a mark, but Arteta was looking for very specific attributes from each to fit a very specific playing style. It worked for them in our system, though it very much narrows the market elsewhere.

Burnwinter

My theory's been that fringe players should sell better when our results are amazing. Therefore the benchmark is City for me. That means guys like these going for £20m and up. I don't think we'll quite get there, but £60m for the trio would be a good result in my book.

But the club's valuation of Ramsdale at £40m looks very unlikely despite his ability.

It's going to be a weird summer. Some of these outgoings won't happen till after the Euros and I reckon some of our recruitment can't happen till they do.

mdgoonah41

HomeSteak as a sixers fan, that tobias harris note really hit hard

Burnwinter

Sell 'em to Maresca at Chelsea, he probably wants to play the footy we were playing two years ago.

Qwiss

Burnwinter yeah hoping he'll come in for Zinchenko. Don't think anyone with Nkunku is coming looking for Jesus.

samthegooner

Qwiss I think others covered it far better than I would've been able to but I also agree that I don't think we are selling from a particular position of strength even if our team is much better. The players we need to sell either didn't play much over the last year or two, have had injuries or have contracts that are going to be prohibitive to some clubs that would be interested. Unfortunately, that may leave us with less resources to recycle back into the club but thankfully we are not hurting for revenue with Champs League back on the menu.

flobaba

Clrnc it's all a moot point. The market determines value. Yes, naturally a quality first team player being prised away from their club (think Rice) is different from someone who is a sub or isn't deemed ready for first team duties (think Odegaard from Real Madrid, or any of Nketiah, ESR, Ramsdale), but we can and should still get good value for established premier league players who have been capped for England and have played champions League football. To suggest otherwise is basically looking at the hole rather than the doughnut. We have assets here, not liabilities.

lorddulaarsenal

Nico Williams makes so much sense for us.

Love his style on the left. Can provide cover for Saka. Recon Arteta can develop his game well too.

samthegooner

I think Arteta can turn him into a world class winger. He already has a few traits that will standout in our squad - his pace, ability on both feet and ball striking.

flobaba

samthegooner I just like that he is consistent with his technique. That's what Martinelli showed he was lacking last season.

How well he would adapt to the physicality in the premier league is yet to be seen.

JazzG

He’s suppose to be reliable

CPM

I believe we've inquired but not sure there's more to it than that. I'd be a bit skeptical of this signing, he's too similar to Rice for me.

lorddulaarsenal

Our game centres around winning duels and being physical. If Rice is not available we lose a lot on that front. Onana would also allow Rice to play more advanced on occasions

CPM

Rice-Onana is not a good midfield tandem. Two 6/8 hybrids whose strongest qualities are running and tackling, I don't really see how they complement each other.

JazzG

CPM Rice-Onana is not a good midfield tandem. Two 6/8 hybrids whose strongest qualities are running and tackling, I don't really see how they complement each other.

Assuming Partey leaves that leaves us with Rice & Jorginho as our only recognised CMs next season. We don't need one player we need two. Someone in the FDJ profile and then someone like Onana makes our balance perfect imo. Onana and Rice I think would work fine in tough away games, both are a lot more technical than people give credit for. Most importantly gives us legs in midfield, right now apart from Rice we have no physicality and power there, we need another big strong player there.

Partey is definitely more easier on the eye but imo no coincidence that when he came back into the side defensively we looked more vulnerable. Just finding someone who has a passing range like Partey is easier said than done imo. Not always straight forward finding like for like so you need to find a way to build differently. We were fine without him all season and as long as we can get two decent players in we'll move on and improve.

lorddulaarsenal

Both are technically able, both can travel with the ball and both carry a goal threat.

It’s more about providing a platform for the attacking quartet anyhow

CPM

You provide a platform for the attackers by being able to pass them the ball, which we struggled to do against well-organized 'mid blocks' in particular last year.

You only need so much 'open space running' in an XI, and we already have Rice and Martinelli who excel there but aren't as comfortable in tight spaces.

Deeper in midfield we need a calm technical leader who can pass through the lines, the way Partey can at his best. Rice and Onana both might be 'technically able', but neither is that.

lorddulaarsenal

CPM well at the start of the year when we were pretty much impenetrable at the back we played our best football, battering teams. That period was probably the highest level of football seen in the Premiership

Qwiss

CPM totally agree. I have my hopes that Rice will make a big jump in his technical and ball playing ability this year but I still don't want another Rice. When we had Rice and Havertz in midfield we looked a lot worse and I feel like Rice and Onana would be similar. I'd take Onana for rotation if he was coming on a good deal like £35m to replace Partey/Vieira but I don't think thats realistic.

lorddulaarsenal well at the start of the year when we were pretty much impenetrable at the back we played our best football, battering teams.

That period was defined by Havertz moving to striker and Rice moving to the 8 role with Jorginho behind him. Thats the ideal set up for me too (also a period without Zinchenko in the team) but its heavily reliant on a Jorginho/Partey type deep lying playmaker. Not a Rice/Onana type ball winner.

goon its clear Arteta like physical players but there is a couple of levels between Onana and Bruno G on the ball.

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