Nwanners!: Page 13 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Nwanners!

Burnwinter

goon Expectation management for a 17yr old who has never started a game is a little different than a seasoned pro who’s had to deal with mental trauma…

The comment on Jesus was half a joke: it's just evident that Nwaneri rarely looks bothered by any occasion, but Jesus regularly looks like his soul's burning up in realtime under the pressure to finish a chance, any chance.

Psychological welfare and confidence are a major question for players of any age. But the terrain varies hugely and the best practices at any age are far more nuanced than "just play him less".

You guys have landed in this peculiar faux-sensible position where you insist it's too physically and spiritually risky to use a gifted 17 year old as a sub for half an hour a week even though he looks great every time he's on the field.

Make it make sense, as it seems a delirium of overthinking to me.

goon

Burnwinter

Mine was a full joke light heartedly omit-spalnin' the situation for you again.

I've never said it's too risky, I have said several times I don't think a half hour sub would do any harm and would personally like to see it.

I'm just taking Arteta's comments on the matter at face value and can see the reasoning behind wrapping the kid in cotton wool, overkill or not. If nothing else, it's the simplest explanation as to why we're not using him much more.

Clrnc

goon it's way too conservative as usual with our young players. I think that has been a common theme throughout his reign and he is definitely consistent with his thinking to trust experience players more, whether it's at the expense of results or not but otherwise I agree with your points.

It's those people who cherry picks what to back the manager on, like saying nah Arteta is playing mind games whenever it's something they didn't agree on then say arteta has no reason to lie with something they agree on that's ironic. Every manager says PR stuffs, doesn't mean it's the truth. You would have to be thick to believe Arteta says everything as it is and can do no wrong.

Clrnc

Don Pacifico Yeah I don't agree with the point about preparing the player for success 5 years down the line. That's the same argument people mention that its better to keep Saliba in reserves and not registering him into any matchday line up (which he obviously was unhappy with) just to cotton wool wrap him and playing nonsense players that lost us many matches, so that Saliba has a higher chance of success in future. Don't see the logic at all and has never did.

If the player is good enough, he should be playing irregardless of age. Of course the whole argument here is not to overplay the player, but to use it more so that our chance of winning that particular match is higher. 30-40 minutes here and there cannot hurt. People saying otherwise is intentionally being obtuse.

If the player has looked awful and not ready, it will not matter if he is 16 year old or 26 year old.

Don Pacifico

Clrnc Don't see the logic at all and has never did.

That's fine. I obviously don't agree and think developing players (or human beings as they're known outside of football! 😆) is more complex than how you make out. You only need to look at kids who graduated during COVID who are lacking basic skills/confidence because they missed out on the support previous generations had in non-virtual education.

Bottom line, kids can be fragile and need to be nurtured carefully; the progression plan for one of them won't necessarily suit another.

Coombs

Clrnc If the player is good enough, he should be playing irregardless of age.

I'm on the "play Nwanners more" side, but this I fundamentally disagree with. There are other factors at play that are serious, and can very much constitute legitimate reasons not to make kids do adult work.

DiabyKungFu

Coombs There are other factors at play that are serious

I agree with this insofar as the "other factors" are that the physical stress of playing first-team adult football might cause injuries that permanently wreck their biomechanics (ala Wilshere and Oxlade-Chamberlain). It seems like the people who are arguing "other factors" seem to mostly be saying something like "If the player plays bad then this will ruin them psychologically", though. This seems like completely made-up bullshit to me. Without even thinking about this too hard, Bellerin and Smith-Rowe both had notably awful first-team full debuts. I think Coquelin and Chamberlain both made their Arsenal debuts in the 8-2 game. All these players turned out just fine. This "psychological scarring" thing seems remarkably undertheorized.

For what it's worth, I think Nwaneri's gametime just boils down to Arteta trusting Trossard. I don't think it's too much of a mystery. Hopefully, he starts trusting Trossard less, though.

Clrnc

Coombs I don't disagree, but I am not saying we should start him every match, but rather he should be trusted and used more than what he got when Odegaard is out, and our results (losses) might have been different.

Burnwinter

DiabyKungFu This "psychological scarring" thing seems remarkably undertheorized.

I agree with you on this. Also is it possible to be socialised in a given milieu without undergoing what might be viewed as damage, depending on your analytic lens?

We know vaguely what that involves in any workplace ... but perhaps we're underestimating how much psychological pressure and expectation a hopeful such as Nwaneri has already sustained and survived in his short life. Getting from the academy to the first XI is like being a contestant on Squid Game.

No one's saying throw Nwaneri to the wolves but I question why subbing him on in football matches would be a bigger mental health risk than benching him.

flobaba

Claudius I agree, hence the "situations when we are cruising"/in control addendum, such as vs Forest last time out

flobaba

Claudius and DOMINATED. We played extremely well.

Coombs

Clrnc the way I see it, we over-adjusted to Odegaard's absence, and didn't even give our boys the chance to work it out themselves because we had the wrong combinations out on the pitch with widly different instructions. Not playing Nwaneri is part of that, and the new Clive Palmer argument that we'll see more of him now that Odegaard is back proves the point.

Qwiss

Coombs the way I see it, we over-adjusted to Odegaard's absence,

Absolutely. One of the most notable thing about last nights match is how we worked the ball into the box on the floor. While Ode was out it was endless crosses swung in hoping Havertz would get his head on one of them. Obviously Ode is the best in the squad at this sort intricate play around the box but the rest are capable too, our attacks should have been more varied in his absence.

flobaba

This is such a boring discussion. The kid is playing. The kid is good. Some want to, or would have liked to see him get basically about 60 - 90 minutes of football more under his belt, others contend he's been eased in alright...

I'm just glad Arsenal is back to form/ winning ways now.

flobaba

Capable is a far cry away from the one of the best in the world.

Pep’s head is proof of this.

Panda

https://www.skysports.com/football/story-telling/11670/13262200/ethan-nwaneri-inside-the-rise-of-arsenals-star-in-waiting

Nice article. Our next Hale End star 🙏🏼

Don Pacifico

Panda reads very similarly to how Saka was profiled when he broke through. Fingers crossed.🤞

Burnwinter

Bloody brilliant.

daredevil

You can call me a true believer after yesterday's performance. I don't put much stock in substitute/league cup performances, but in his first league start in a tough game, he was excellent and best of all, Saka's injury is a blessing in disguise for him as RW is a much better role for him to be developed in as it carries less risk and amplifies his strengths.

From what I've seen, he's more of a forward than a midfielder, he's not really a build up player, but he's an attacker who will beat players and get shots and crosses in. That's why I think there was some hesitancy playing him in midfield, but I don't think Arteta will have any issues ramping up his starts as a forward.

flobaba

They're still nursing him in. You can tell. With Saka the ball is sent down the wing to him quickly, basically as soon as he's available to receive. Partey would consciously wait until Odegaard and Timber were in position to support him before releasing the ball to Nwaneri. It left him with less time and space to try to beat his man one v one, but he was also not as isolated as he had been in previous matches when he's started without the regulars.

More meaningful minutes under the belt, good performance. On to the next one.

Coombs

flobaba while that did happen, they also tried to play him early on a number of occasions when it wasn't really on. I even said out loud "maybe they think Saka is still out there".

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