Meatwad what the fuck is up with you people always interjecting in our elections?

I guess it's that the USA casts such a huge shadow across the world - and particularly here that we're all watching very keenly to see what happens.

I don't really understand how we've got to a place where January 6 happened (amongst many, many other things) and the guy that caused it to happen is not only not doing prison time for it, but seems to have an even chance of winning again.

I don't think, as Jazz does, that whoever gets in it'll be the same shit - Trump has signalled as much. Personally, I find the thought of him taking power again incredibly worrying - but I acknowledge it's not really my business.

    Meh - this forum has threads on UK, French and German elections. The US isn't particularly singled out relative to their influence on world affairs.

    But I can understand the gripe when people make assumptions about the folks living in a completely different society without actually being there.

    RocktheCasbah I don't really understand how we've got to a place where January 6 happened (amongst many, many other things) and the guy that caused it to happen is not only not doing prison time for it, but seems to have an even chance of winning again.

    That’s just the thing. Trump being elected and January 6 don’t just happen out of the blue. There’s at least two decades of lead up to this moment, if not more of an increasingly mobilized conservative movement. But there is a longer thread of other things like guns, racism, abortion which point to a country lean further to the right than many liberals care to admit.

      Claudius yeah, it's like that line in the Sopranos "out there it's the 1990's but in this house it's 1954”.

      Except that the house is the United States. And it's more like 1854.

      Just to add to the Sopranos comment, I recently watched a brilliant documentary about David Chase and the Sopranos. Chase said the joke at the heart of the Sopranos was that the modern world was so fucked, a gangster was appalled by it. I think that sense of sickness about the world as it is maybe has led some people to hanker for times they perceive to be simpler - and rosier.

      I think many left/centre parties in the west are struggling at the moment to define what they stand for and to counter the right at the moment.
      Whist there may have been mistakes in the strategy I don't think it's anything to do with Harris' competence. If you think Harris is incompetent what on earth is your impression of Trump, that is truly incompetent leader and very much a malicious individual so competence is not what's driving the issue in my view because if it was there is no way trump wins that battle. With trump and people like Boris you just have the public (or a proportion) tolerating some awful behaviour and seemingly not holding them to account.

      Funny you should say that, I've just finished a book called the Assault on Truth. It goes on a bit, but Peter Oborne lays out the case for how Johnson and Trump systematically dismantled the norms of politics and converted the truth into something that means whatever they want it to. All the while watched on by a compliant media and client journalists and, to your point, cheered on by a public who haven't quite realised the joke's on them.

        this lawsuit is so diabolical, but because of venue shopping, they are almost certain to win in district court. the case will likely die in the court of appeals or, god forbid, scotus, but its just incredible the lengths the right will go to make women third class citizens.

        “Remote dispensing of abortion drugs by mail, common carrier, and interactive computer service is depressing expected birth rates for teenaged mothers in Plaintiff States,” the attorneys general allege in the complaint, which was filed before forced birth enthusiast Judge Matt Kacsmaryk in the Northern District of Texas’s Amarillo Division. They claim that decreased births constitute “a sovereign injury to the state in itself,” and causes downstream injuries like “losing a seat in Congress or qualifying for less federal funding if their populations are reduced.” In other words, uteri are state slush funds, and girls owe the state reproduction once they are capable of it.

        https://ballsandstrikes.org/law-politics/mifepristone-lawsuit-republican-ags-more-pregnant-teens/

        RocktheCasbah yeah they have undermined the idea that this stuff should matter and made it a bit of a joke but it's really not and these kinds of people never have any intention to help the groups they pander to.

        bezos apparently interjected on the Washington post editorial board endorsing Harris, which caused some staff to resign in protest. something similar happened with the LA Time a few years ago. then you look at the fact that trump will give elon musk unprecedented favours if he actually wins, you can see the rot that sets in when oligarchs have unlimited wealth and reach. and this is all in the wake of jan 6th (I don't even like referring to it as that - it was a months long, pre-mediated misinformation campaign that culminated in jan 6th). I don't think these problems go away even if trump loses tbh. it's almost inevitable that oligarchy puts you on a road to autocracy, and the US has been accelerating towards it for the last few decades ever since both parties were consumed by special interests.

          Gazza M the LA times thing happened just a few days ago, not even years ago. the guy who owns the LAT is best friends with elon musk. bezos is panicked that if trump wins, he'll cut a bunch of amazon's federal contracts.

            @mdgoonah41 there is other early vote data in bellwether areas that is a bit more rosy for dems, but I get the panic. it's wild that it's going to be close. the other thing is that trumps campaign has run an average ground game - stunts like musk giving 1 million bucks away to pennsylvania voters for example. in a tight race the dem get out the vote machine can make a difference. Hillary didn't really do that in the rust belt and Biden couldn't due to covid.

              Gazza M the early data in nevada is really bad for dems. nevada isnt essential, but biden won nevada by 2.5 points, a trump win there would be a bad sign elsewhere, imo

                Isn't Musk basically paying money to people who vote for Trump? The whole thing is fucked.

                RocktheCasbah I don't think, as Jazz does, that whoever gets in it'll be the same shit - Trump has signalled as much. Personally, I find the thought of him taking power again incredibly worrying - but I acknowledge it's not really my business.

                I think we should revisit this in 4 years time,

                  mdgoonah41 hard to compare to 2020. older republicans and rural areas have taken up early voting in force now, which was to be expected since the trump campaign realised that their 2020 strategy of telling people that 'any vote that's not in person is fraudulent' wasn't the smartest move. republicans might be eating into their 'day of' vote. too early to say definitively either way. if she does lose Nevada, Arizona is most likely toast as well.

                  speaking of eating into, the absolute barrage of advertising and phone calls ive been subjected to the last few weeks is eating into my will to live. living in the epicenter of this election has been brutal.

                  From Allentown to Erie, mailboxes are bursting with campaign literature like trash cans at the end of a music festival.
                  Television, TikTok, and sports talk radio broadcast a barrage of blunt ads and Pennsylvanians’ commutes are increasingly snarled by candidates headed to a McDonald’s or a historical site, or a podium in another swingy part of this internationally known battleground state.
                  The 2024 presidential election moved into Pennsylvania and never left, an Inquirer analysis of the last year of campaigning shows.
                  Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump, and their allies, have dumped more than $538 million in advertising dollars to reach Pennsylvania voters.

                  That’s the most of any swing state and about $185 million more than the next closest battleground, Michigan, according to ad tracker AdImpact.

                  this afternoon alone, ive gotten 4 calls on my cell phone (i dont have a landline, obviously) from unknown PA numbers which are obviously calling to either poll me or remind me to vote.

                    mdgoonah41 I'm from PA, but don't live there. Most of my peeps vote Trump, though. I feel pretty guilty.

                    skimmed through rogans trump interview. I love him asking the guy that tried blatantly stealing the last election about his ideas on election integrity. the online right has been trying to colonise the rogan podcast for years to sanewash their bullshit in front of as many people as possible, but up until 2022 he was adamant he wouldn't interview trump. COVID sent him over the edge, then moving to Texas and becoming chummy with musk kind of sealed the deal. now his show is just echo-boosting right wing drivel from the bowels of X-chan

                    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/10/trump-judges-election-day-voting-disaster.html

                    the 5th circuit continues to dole out legal terrorism

                    On Friday afternoon, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit handed down a shock decision declaring that states may not count ballots that are mailed by Election Day but received shortly thereafter. By its own terms, the ruling applies only to Mississippi, throwing the legality of its voting procedures into question just 11 days before the election. Nationwide, however, 18 states and Washington D.C. accept late-arriving ballots; the 5th Circuit’s reasoning would render all these laws illegitimate and void, nullifying hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of ballots. The court’s obvious goal, aside from destabilizing a close election, is to tee up a Supreme Court decision that could wipe out all these laws in one fell swoop.

                    The Republican National Committee manufactured this dispute as a test case to end the widespread practice of accepting ballots that come in after Election Day, but are postmarked by Election Day. (Republicans believe that these ballots are disproportionately likely to support Democrats.) The RNC filed its lawsuit in Mississippi because that’s the one state within the 5th Circuit that counts late-arriving ballots, and conservative lawyers knew they could get a favorable ruling from the far-right court. RNC lawyers argued that federal law requires all votes to be received by Election Day, not just cast by Election Day. And they claimed that this federal rule overrides, or “preempts,” state laws to the contrary, including Mississippi’s.

                    U.S. District Judge Louis Guirola Jr. sharply rejected this argument. He pointed out that, under the Constitution, “the times, places and manner” of federal elections “shall be prescribed” by the states, though Congress may “make or alter” the state’s laws. Congress has not prescribed specific rules for mail ballots, instead leaving those decisions up to the states. The fact that Congress created one “Election Day” does not mean that it intended to void ballots that are cast by that date but, for whatever reason, arrive shortly thereafter.

                    Now the 5th Circuit has disagreed. The three-judge panel that decided this case is made up of extremely far-right, ultra-partisan appointees of Donald Trump: Andrew Oldham, Kyle Duncan, and James Ho. In his majority opinion joined by Duncan and Ho, Oldham latched onto federal law setting out “the day for the election.” He then declared that this is “the day by which ballots must be both cast by voters and received by state officials.” Oldham asserted that a ballot is not actually “cast” until “the state takes custody of it”—a contested question on which federal law is silent. By fabricating this atextual rule, he was able to insist that late-arriving ballots are actually “cast” after Election Day.

                    The historical reasons why Friday’s decision is dead wrong are just as apparent. States have counted late-arriving absentee ballots for more than a century, and federal courts have never stopped them from doing so (until now). Oldham dismissed these historical examples as “outliers,” but he is wrong: The reality is that most states did not allow for broad mail voting until quite recently. Those states that did allow absentee voting frequently counted ballots cast by Election Day that came in shortly thereafter. Oldham simply sought to downplay this clear historical record to make a misleading, cherrypicked case against the practice.

                    Finally, the practical: Because 18 states and D.C.—including large states like California—already accept late-arriving ballots, the RNC sought a revolution in election law. Most states don’t report exactly how many of these ballots are tabulated each year. But there are a lot: In the 2022 midterms, for example, Clark County, Nevada alone received and counted about 40,000 valid mail ballots after Election Day. Around the country, the number may well reach the millions, especially since California counts ballots received up to a week after Election Day. If the Supreme Court embraced the 5th Circuit’s reasoning, it would nullify all these ballots.

                    And that, to be clear, is the game plan. In contrast with recent practice, the 5th Circuit did not issue a preliminary nationwide injunction, but directed the district court to “fashion appropriate relief.” It is surely too close to the election to change the rules of the game under the Supreme Court’s Purcell principle. If these lower courts try to do so, it seems likely that SCOTUS will stop them. But the 5th Circuit has now created a vehicle for the justices to visit this issue after the election and potentially strike down nearly 20 states’ laws, making voting exponentially harder in the future.

                    It’s worth pausing to consider how cynical and political Friday’s decision was. The 5th Circuit could, and should, have held this case until after the election, in recognition that a sweeping decision would cast a pall of confusion and uncertainty over the imminent election. Now Mississippians do not know if their ballots will count should they happen to be slightly delayed by the postal service. Voters in many other states are on notice that the 5th Circuit has announced that, as a matter of federal law, their ballots should be tossed out if they come back slightly late. And people who reject the outcome of the election will seize upon the ruling to claim that the results are illegitimate. The 5th Circuit has given the RNC exactly what it wanted: an excuse to undermine voting rights and reject the legitimacy of the election. It is an appallingly partisan and anti-democratic stunt with potentially catastrophic consequences.