Arsenal - Crystal Palace. Saturday. 20 Jan, 12:30 UK Time.: Page 16 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal - Crystal Palace. Saturday. 20 Jan, 12:30 UK Time.

daredevil

You can extend that to the government, and extend it even further to most things.

Mirth

Something something Peter Principle

Claudius

A bit away from Gabriel and on to VAR. I’ve been a big proponent of the concept of VAR based on some of the historic injustices that we can all immediately think of like Lampard ghost goal at 2010 World Cup. But has it been worth it once applied? Does eliminating a few big mistakes like that make up for the insecurity fans feel with celebrating any goal now. The added time evaluating every goal, even ones that are clearly onside and legal. Or the remaining areas of doubt anyway like the Newcastle goal or the Havertz non-goal? Thoughts!

Mirth

Claudius VAR was entirely successful during the World Cup and in the CL. Sure there’s one or two mistakes but it’s no where as bad as it is in the Premier League

Clrnc

Mirth VAR has been absolutely superb in the Asian Cup. Super refreshing to see every single decision gotten right and in quick time.

And the semi automated offside is so so good and quick. I can't believe PL hasn't considered using that yet

RowJimmy

I tend to think the reason it's been such a problem in England is the effort to "not undermine" the on-field ref. Once you're doing this the goal has to be to get the correct result as quickly as possible.
The offside system used during the WC was really fast and clear, for example. It's not as if the PL can't afford to install the cameras necessary to run it.

Claudius

It feels like the Premier league chooses to be bad. The NBA has a central replay facility and I know that back in 2016 they were touting a 30 second average time for reviewing decisions. I have started watching NFL where so much happens in a single play, and those referees call and corroborate fouls instantly. If VAR was established by Americans, maybe it looks more like this, and we don’t care about it

goon

VAR and refereeing should mostly common sense application of the rules and the principles behind them.

In the PL the approach is strict adherence to the letter of the law in what is a highly subjective game. Then they all have the own interpretation of what the law is. And you also have the third layer of incompetence in that a lot of them seem to think they should be the centre of attention rather than invisible.

As for the Gabriel goal, I’m convinced they ruled it an OG because the dimwits in commentary thought it was. This happens with VAR too, I’m almost certain.

Qwiss

VARs a mess and it was always going to be. It goes against the nature of football and has taken away the most fun part of the game as a spectator.

QuincyAbeyie

Anything is a mess when the people doing the job aren't capable.

Qwiss

QuincyAbeyie And if you thought PGMOL, the Premier League, etc were going to do a good job of it you haven't being paying attention.

Burnwinter My theory why they aren't fixing it: the refs like the attention and being among the "protagonists" in the sport,

Well how else would they get handy post football careers on TV. We have Mark Clattenburg on Gladiators now and the likes of Dermot Gallagher on sky punditry. Not to mention lucrative opportunities reffing matches in the middle east.

Burnwinter

The VAR system encourages referees to reduce their accountability, but for many of the types of decision they make, the standard isn't improving, and the system also draws attention to how poor the standard is.

For something as relatively minor as the decision on awarding this goal, there is no need for a bureaucratic process. Ref can just sort it out by full time and everyone can wear the decision.

It would be easy to fix the VAR system anyway. Just restrict it to offsides and goal line decisions.

My theory why they aren't fixing it: the refs like the attention and being among the "protagonists" in the sport, and for the broadcasters and pundits, refereeing controversy is pound for pound as big a driver of "engagement" with the product as goals, red cards, etc—it's worth money. Also explains why the problem's worse in the world's most important league.

Burnwinter

The endless VAR controversies are like bullshit transfer rumours … they sit at cross purposes to the integrity of the sport, they're a total waste of our time and they mostly piss us off, but they also turn into their own profitable entertainment product which will never die. Hope this is as bad as it gets, 'cause it can definitely get worse.

QuincyAbeyie

Qwiss I don't think anyone thinks PGMOL are good at anything, but to me it's kind like saying that calculators are a mess because some people press the wrong buttons. The refs are the problem. VAR is just a tool that allows them to look at incidents from more angles to make more informed conclusions, but the degree of which it fixes decisions will always be up to the quality of the refs.

For offside decisions I'd guess that wrong calls now make up close to 0 % of total calls. Even useless refs usually manage to draw the line.

Clrnc

I would go as far as to say that VAR is only a big problem in UK, nowhere else. I watch a lot of football and most of the time they use it correctly without much controversy.

In UK, they use VAR to check extremely obvious offside calls for 1min, double triple check common sense stuffs and then invent a red card, find phantom fouls to disallow goals.

Qwiss

Clrnc double triple check common sense stuffs and then invent a red card,

I actually think this one is really rare. If VAR should be for anything its player protection and I am all for sending people off when they land studs up challenges on peoples legs. That seems to be the sort of thing pundits whinge about "oh of course it looks bad slowed down" etc I want more reds for those.

Clrnc

QuincyAbeyie For offside decisions I'd guess that wrong calls now make up close to 0 % of total calls. Even useless refs usually manage to draw the line.

The lines are actually still subject to errors as compared to the semi automated systems the rest are using. Some of the starting points of the lines are wrong and yet sometimes nobody points it out, like the Stones goal against us at Etihad last season. Was clearly offside.

Big Willie

Clrnc The lines are actually still subject to errors as compared to the semi automated systems the rest are using. Some of the starting points of the lines are wrong and yet sometimes nobody points it out, like the Stones goal against us at Etihad last season. Was clearly offside.

I think I vaguely remember thinking they scored an offside goal against us last season. Not sure if it's only vague because it was the game we were comfortably beaten in though.

QuincyAbeyie For offside decisions I'd guess that wrong calls now make up close to 0 % of total calls. Even useless refs usually manage to draw the line.

That's only when the can be bothered to draw the lines. That goal against us for Brentford was crazy.

QuincyAbeyie

Clrnc even if there are examples it'll still be close to 0 % because of the number of offside decisions, and certainly a much, much smaller amount of wrong offside calls than before VAR, when it was pretty normal to make wrong calls.

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