Arteta’s late use of substitutions: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta’s late use of substitutions

awooga83

I agree with those making the points about how we use subs and the timing of them when the game hasn't gone our way. The recent Liverpool cup tie is an example for me. We played well for the most part bar finishing but at around the 65-70 minute mark in the stand I felt it was clear that the team had thrown everything they had and it just didn't look like it was going to happen. That might be somewhat intangible feeling but it was clear the game was starting to flip and we were probably tired.

But we brought Martinelli on and then no changes until we conceded. After which it was just a throw Eddie on but not Trossard or ESR both came on at the 88 minute. It didn't seem like there was any great thought about how do we make adjustments when it hasn't really worked change the patterns etc. Instead stick to the usual plan with Martinelli and then throw on the other guys out of desperation. I just don't feel Arteta is his at tactically adjusting in those games where plan a didn't go exactly as we wanted.

Claudius

Qwiss

Claudius so you're saying his starting line ups are wrong?

Burnwinter

Claudius It's interesting to view this stat in its greater context of when different clubs are scoring their goals:

https://www.soccerstats.com/timing.asp?league=england

City have their greatest goal differential in the 15 minutes after half time, we have ours in the final 15 minutes (plus time added I assume).

There's also this data on the proportion of minutes spent in a positive game state: City lead us 47% to 31% on that metric. Over the whole of last season this stat was 46% for us.

https://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=england&tid=t

These numbers explain why fans are wondering about Arteta's use of subs, correctly or incorrectly. It's because we're processing more anxiety in those final half hours of matches. Our first XI isn't doing well enough, and the difference in serenity and joyous leisure time on the pitch between this season and last season is quite stark.

These two "internal solutions" make sense to me to accelerate our left side:

trial Smith Rowe with starts at left 8, and use Havertz as a utility sub
when Partey is match fit, try starting him and moving Rice to left 8

No shade on Havertz. As Scott Willis has just pointed out, he's been improving as a piece of the attacking puzzle. He also works hard in all aspects of the game. However, verve and combination play are lacking and maybe Smith Rowe can give us more of what we need.

Meanwhile we have no solution, not even a backup or substitute plan, for the damped efficacy of Saka and Ødegaard on our right side. Saka plays 90 even when we're winning 5–0.

Claudius

Qwiss thank God for second chances. In the old days when Pele was on the come up, a manager lived and died by the 11 he picked

banduan

I've always thought Arteta's late use of subs is a holdover from his Citeh days. Definitely a feature of Pep.

These metrics aren't great btw cos doesn't remove forced subs

Burnwinter

Arteta more or less pre-plans subbing off Martinelli, so looking at the data on this without his stats would be legit I reckon.

Martinelli has only run out a match three times this season, and he averages 70 minutes across 18 starts plus the weekend's sub appearance.

I assume this practice has got a lot to do with the demands of his role rather than a problem with his endurance, plus we've got Trossard to come on for him.

daredevil

So Kiwior's assist for Trossard's goal makes it the 6th time both subs combined to score a goal this season. A new PL record. (Haven't fact checked, but whatever.) Yet, one of the biggest complaints are his use of subs.

awooga83

daredevil not about the general point but I'm always a little against labelling those kinds of goals as assists because that's all Trossard. I think I'm more impressed by how much Trossard can contribute with not really stating a whole lot. He's a great asset for the team.

Burnwinter

daredevil Trossard routinely comes on for Martinelli on 70 minutes. We've talked about this already. It's the exception that proves the rule if anything.

Claudius

Is this still a point of contention?

Qwiss

Claudius yeah. Only made one sub vs Porto.

Big Willie

So long as we are 3-0 up, no.

Claudius

He didn’t bother subbing in Porto because there was nobody to sub on.

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