Edu: Sporting Director … or high-priced bagman?: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Edu: Sporting Director … or high-priced bagman?

HomeSteak

Meatwad transfermarkt has it at 15.

Meatwad

HomeSteak
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/66120275.amp

Coombs

The title of this thread is even more interesting when applied to the sporting/technical director role across the sport, I think. What are they, exactly? Walking Rolodexes, data wizards, charismatic salespeople, football visionaries? In truth, I feel like a large part of the role is actually more like a bagman for managers - managers have to feel as if the entire structure is there to support them, that the team is being molded in their image, their every need is met (within reason), and that they are also kept honest and focused on coaching (Wenger lost this specific support and desperately needed it). All the while, the TD is simultaneously establishing a strong foundation that won't collapse when that manager gets sacked/leaves. In that sense, I think you don't really know how well a TD is doing until the manager changes over.

At Arsenal, all of this is complicated by our penchant for visionary managers, who might further obscure the background work of the TD by taking on many of those romantic roles. So maybe Edu is really more of an enabler, and I'm not sure there's anything much wrong with that as long as we are set up to continue an upward trajectory when Arteta leaves. In a weird way, that also means that a TD has to give a manager enough rope to hang themselves with, otherwise you couldn't tell who was doing a good job or not. Then you have the further complication of Edu potentially leaving before Arteta, which would basically mean we never get much insight into his actual job performance. Might be the best move for his career, actually, if Arteta wins something big with Arsenal and Edu uses that moment to leverage a move to another big club to keep up the mystique.

Burnwinter

A Tale of Two Hundred Million.

£105m - Declan Rice. Our best signing of the summer despite the high price, a leader in the team immediately, he can deliver at a high level at 6 or 8, and is already contributing across his considerable range while seemingly offering further improvement, a match-winner, and at the ideal age just entering his prime.

£95m = £65m + £30m - Kai Havertz and David Raya.

Havertz. A grand experiment that failed instantly at left 8. A player who, despite some useful attributes, doesn't look like he'll ever be a nailed on starter, or a difference maker. Doesn't gel well with those around him and fails more often than not under pressure. We're many matches into the season and we still don't have a stable first choice midfield due to how poor Havertz has been.

Raya. A perfectly fine keeper ushered into a pointless confrontation with another perfectly fine keeper. Now the subject of considerable media attention, he looks pressured and troubled.

Imagine if we'd just spent that second £95m on another Declan Rice. We'd be way better off.

Don Pacifico

I'm prepared to give both more time but doesn't look great at the moment, particularly in light of the supposed financial constraints we'll be operating with in the near future.

Meatwad

unless the kroenke's empower Edu you won't notice a difference if he's replaced. right now the kroenke's are allowing arteta to tell edu to buy whoever he wants even if it doesn't make any sense. we would be a sad sack team if we go his original targets, so i guess there is that. hmmm what if edu has more influence on the backup choices ....

goon

I don't really know the specifics of what Edu does or doesn't do and I'd be surprised if anyone on here does. I suspect many of these technical director types simultaneously get too much credit and too much criticism.

But all I know is we've quickly assembled one of the youngest most valuable squads on the planet and have them tied down to long contracts, so he'll do me for now.

Meatwad

but at least 3 of the big players powering that great valuation were acquired before them: saka, saliba and martinelli. and the rest are inline with what we paid for them so it's not like they're buying players and their value is increasing.

Don Pacifico

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68074110

Haven't got round to scrutinising the data but the headlines don't make for good reading in terms of having the 3rd highest losses on players. We laugh at Chelsea (and I get they pay high prices AND seem to have no coherent recruitment strategy) but the prices we pay versus the prices we sell at really need to be interrogated internally. #brokenrecord

Meatwad

Don Pacifico
that data is for the last decade so most of it isn't edu's fault.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Even the younger more promising players we sign who don't make it at Arsenal have there value tanked within 18 months.

The Value Destroyers™

Clrnc

Meatwad this decade won't make for many different readings tbh. We have improved but still don't sell well and we buy for huge amounts. Most of our players don't keep value well or rather we don't keep their value well.

Claudius

All that I read from those numbers is you reap what you sow. When we started saying the club is being badly run 8-10 years ago, that’s all those numbers show. Wenger and Gazidis started piling the club with bad contracts and it has taken forever to clean up house.

In any operating environment you need to look at the outputs and inputs/health. The inputs/health were bad for a long time and we’ve paid dearly for it. Only thing I’m happy about is we have finally steered ourselves away from that. Unlike United, for example, who are still stuck in that mode.

daredevil

Being good at selling is focusing on the wrong thing, and it's quite hilarious actually because we did that between 2008-2013 and people weren't any happier.

I don't necessarily want us to be a good selling club. We could have sold Henry at the back of the CL defeat and got 4 times the fee we got in the end. We could have sold Sanchez at the peak of his powers to Man City for £60m, but instead ending up swapping him for Mkhitaryan. Now of course, there were other fringe players who we could have sold after receiving bids when their stock was high. But that begs the question, why in gods name would we want to sell our players when they are doing well? Are we in this game to win trophies and give the manager the best players possible to succeed and keep them as long as possible, or do we want to make profits and churn through players so we can spend more frequently.

Don Pacifico

daredevil Being good at selling is focusing on the wrong thing, and it's quite hilarious actually because we did that between 2008-2013 and people weren't any happier.

I don't necessarily want us to be a good selling club.

Think there's an important distinction - we were a selling club but don't think we always did well in the price we sold them for.

Wanting to win trophies isn't just about buying expensive players - it's also about achieving suitable net transfer fees to facilitate as many additions to the squad as needed. Signing Raya on a loan is an example of where we've reached our financial limits, which arguably wouldn't be the case if we negotiated better prices.

Qwiss

daredevil We could have sold Sanchez at the peak of his powers to Man City for £60m

We absolutely should have. Should have got rid of Ozil then too.

daredevil Are we in this game to win trophies and give the manager the best players possible to succeed

Hopefully but the way to achieve that isn't to hold onto players until their value has plummeted in every given situation. The reality we are seeing now is we need players but we can't buy them due to our poor FFP situation. Edu is responsible for signing the likes of Cedric who's just hanging around doing nothing picking up his big wage packet. We haven't learned from any of it either, just look at Havertz. What a stupid gamble to give him those massive wages and hope he comes good. You can't just put players on insane wages if they aren't going to be a guaranteed key man in your squad.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico yup we got rinsed on the sales of Cesc, RVP, etc

Claudius

I am comfortable with where Edu is right now. Haven’t seen anything to concern me. Team is in title chase for second straight season. We are finally getting to some champions league knockout after 6 years. Let’s build on this.

Qwiss

Claudius I think its crunch time for him (probably not in reality but for me) because we are now at the limits of P&S rules so bad deals are going to hurt us. We have to sell better and smarter and TBH we need to spend smarter too. Dropping €35m on a Vieira or handing out wages like Havertz need more consideration.

Meatwad

Qwiss
damn havertz and vieira costing €100m+ is mind boggling. they were treating these transfers like the bill would never come due. oh the kroenke's say it's ok so let's waste money. and a lot of supporters were fine with it talking about how it's not their money. now because of a real FFP the league is saying hold up, wait a second you idiots.

Claudius

Qwiss I don’t like all the deals he’s done, but I’m happy with the vast majority. And when I go to other forums, I see similar discussions. Manchester City fans had a lot to say about replacing Gundogan with Nunes and Kovacic. Many also think that Philips was a waste of money and Grealish was terrible value. And most of us consider City a well-run, if corrupt, club. Go to every fan forum, and the same concerns about individual purchases arise. The real test is whether the overall group is working.

Qwiss

Meatwad and Havertz is on £14,560,000 per year which is the real killer. It means we'll never be able to move him on. He's earning more than some of our best players and he's not at the same level. Its a really silly way to spend money. If they'd paid Rice that last summer I'd understand but even he's on 2 million less per year. If Arteta and Edu thought Havertz was going to come in and be on the same level as Rice, Saka, Ode, etc its hard not to question what the fuck they were watching in the 3 years before he got here.

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