Dele Alli: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Dele Alli

Ricky1985

In this instance, I'm bemoaning your intolerant attitude towards someone whose opinion differs from your own when you are, presumably, not an expert on the subject.

I don't know the extent to which depression is genetic, environmental, lifestyle, or how controllable it is - from the best of my knowledge, I don't think science has a clear answer to offer. I certainly wouldn't agree that depression isn't real because I have a ton of anecdotal evidence which leaves me in little doubt about just how real mental health issues can be and how difficult they are to overcome, but I certainly do not think it's beyond the pale to suggest that a person can and should try to take action to combat depression themselves, and that a person's thoughts, feelings, actions, and behaviours play a role in the severity of the issue.

I don't see how thinking that is evil or insane, and the fact lots of people have successfully managed to overcome depression lends credence to that view.

All that said, there are very few opinions that I would refuse to engage with because I just don't operate that way. I have some core moral principles which I live and die by, and that I believe are rooted in truth and reality, but beyond that I'm open to evidence and persuasion on most anything else.

Qwiss

Ricky1985 but I certainly do not think it's beyond the pale to suggest that a person can and should try to take action to combat depression themselves, and that a person's thoughts, feelings, actions, and behaviours play a role in the severity of the issue.

Thats not what was said. You are being disingenuous now.

Asterix

@Sicario2 - Tier 1 I know quite a few people with medically diagnosed people. I've been rung by my mate a few hours after he tried to kill himself. He's a partner at a huge firm and is very "successful".

He went on to establish this - https://citymha.org.uk/ - it's worth a look.

I know people who were abused as children who are only now dealing with the mental ramifications because how does a 5 year old deal with sexual abuse? Those encounters have led to depression, anxiety, OCD. There is plenty of medical research to support this. Those people were surrounded by the most loving and caring and "successful" people.

Depression can hit anyone. It's a disease, not a weakness. There is plenty of evidence to support this statement if you are interested enough to go and have a look. You don't need to have had trauma to suffer depression. it can affect anyone, for unknown reasons.

And yes, part of treating depression involves forcing yourself to get on with your life. Exercise helps. So does medication. And time. Like any other disease.

But it's not something that is treated by just telling yourself to get on with things.

It's really important that people like Dele Alli speak up and tell their stories. If it helps one other person then that's wonderful.

Good on Dele Alli and good luck to him, and to anyone else suffering out there.

Coombs

Lordy, this is a rough thread. What's sad is that the actual purpose of discussions like these fade quickly into the background when the "personal responsibility" brigade inevitably start lashing out with their "opinions", then get overly sensitive and bitchy the second someone calls them out on it, and proceed to indiscriminately imply that others are just being hip snowflakes or the like. My favorite is "no, you're the troll!"

Typical, sad, and predictable. If you don't want to be called a jerk, don't be a jerk. Take some fucking personal responsibility.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Coombs

When someone uses foul language in response to a debate regardless of how ‘offended’ they are that’s on them, not me.

Depression is a waste of time. You need to get out of that fucking flunk asap and sort yourself out. Life is too short to be miserable. Having some perspective and realise every day you wake up alive is a blessing.

You won’t change my mind on this.

Burnwinter

Ricky1985 This place shouldn't be like social media, where there are acceptable opinions across the spectrum of issues, and anyone that departs from that narrow band is set on by the majority, who are more often than not offering nothing more than opinion themselves.

You're banging your gavel without a courthouse, Ricky. There is no "narrow band" in this case, it's not as if "depression isn't real, people should get a grip" is anything more than a fringe view delivered insensitively and aggressively, inviting summary dismissal. The responses have been moderate and the standard of conduct is certainly higher than parliament, let alone a Twitter pile-on.

banduan

Sicario2 - Tier 1 If you think you’re depressed, you will be depressed.

tier 4 psychotherapist too, you really are talented.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

banduan
Takes one to know one

Daz

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Depression is a waste of time. You need to get out of that fucking flunk asap and sort yourself out. Life is too short to be miserable. Having some perspective and realise every day you wake up alive is a blessing.

You won’t change my mind on this

You've now made it clear you're wedded to your ignorance and Ricky's cries to challenge you with evidence are a waste of time. You're also now intentionally trying to invalidate any person on here with direct experience of the causes and impacts of depression. If you're gonna go on the wind up about sensitive issues (and ones which you clearly have not a fucking clue about) on a forum like this, then don't go crying 'poor me' when you get a few swear words thrown back at you.

Qwiss

Sicario2 - Tier 1 this is you

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Depression is a waste of time. You need to get out of that fucking flunk asap and sort yourself out. Life is too short to be miserable. Having some perspective and realise every day you wake up alive is a blessing.

Cancer is a waste of time. You need to flush that stuff out of your body and get better. Life is too short to be sick. Having some perspective and realise your body is a blessing.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 well, the insidious thing about mental health is that it can be quite difficult to realise you're actually suffering with a problem because it can be a gradual change and/or warps your perception of normality.

So just shaking it off ain't necessarily that easy.

Daz

Sicario2 - Tier 1 It’s fine, I’m a little older than you guys and may have ‘old skool’ mentality

I doubt you're older than me, but if by 'old skool' you mean completely ignorant, judgemental, and fundamentally wrong about this issue, then yeah, you sure are.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Daz
I won’t be baited into any more debates about this and this is my last post on this matter : let’s agree to disagree.

It’s summer, Friday and we are about to sign Declan Rice (finally) and a debate about depression is the last thing I want to do.

Thanks

Daz

No worries. Maybe next time do the forum a favour and think twice before spouting off ignorant views about an issue you know nothing about and to which you have no intention of informing yourself.

Clrnc

Daz I can't believe after so many informed and relatively polite posts about it he proceed to spout nonsense and takes depression lightly.

Refusal to learn and get educated is such a bad quality to have. 😞

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Don Pacifico

This is a fair response.

Anyway I’ll take the ‘L’ on this one and try to read more about this subject.

The little outburst earlier was because I felt ppl were ganging up against me so threw my toys out of the pram.

I was brought up in a male dominated macho (Mediterranean) culture so this why this topic has seen alien to me but I will try to learn.

RocktheCasbah

Don Pacifico well, the insidious thing about mental health is that it can be quite difficult to realise you're actually suffering with a problem because it can be a gradual change and/or warps your perception of normality.

Happened to me twenty years ago. I had a series of things happen to me in Leeds, triggered by a particularly painful break up in the summer of 2002 (which should have been such a happy time!), I ran for home only to discover that universal truth: wherever you go, there you are.

I was in a funk for the longest time. I remember running out of my birthday meal in 2002, crying my eyes out on Kew Green. I think I went slightly mad over the course of that year and beyond, I smashed the glass of my bedroom door in November(?) 2002, the day Thierry scored THAT goal against Spurs and ended up having to clear the mess up when I should have been in the Twelve Pins, celebrating with strangers.

Even in November 2003, when I first met Jo, I couldn't get out of it - and I put Jo through hell for months whilst deciding whether or not we were going to have a relationship. Finally in July '04, I thought we could, perhaps, make a go of it - and so we did, and we have. And even then, I was so damaged, it still took months for me to fully relax into the relationship - the February '05 arrival of TomCat certainly helped. I honestly don't know if we would have stayed together, initially, without this animal coming into our life.

Basically, I believe I've made two good decisions in my life, one was to go and work for Citizens Advice in April '05 (and that has, very obviously, not been without its bumps), the other was to give it a go with Jo. She saved my life. A notion she laughs off now, she says I did this myself, but I honestly believe if I hadn't met her, I'd basically be dead. My head was gone and nobody could reach me. One of my best mates, Lukey, said to me, many years later I was clinically depressed. He's not a doctor, he just recognised the signs, but because he wasn't a doctor, he couldn't help. My mum couldn't help. My grandparents couldn't help, nobody could. In the middle of this time, I lived with another of my best mates, Gabs, for six months, it was one of the darkest periods of my life and when I think about it now, I'm amazed we're still friends. I feel like I was a black hole, just sucking in everything around me. Maybe I wasn't, I might be overdramatising, but when I look back on this time now, it horrifies me. And all this, basically because of a failed relationship - I haven't come close to experiencing the horrors Dele Alli speaks of.

The worst thing about it was - and to your point - I had no idea of what was happening to me and the impact it was having on those around me. Or really, how it all turned around. I guess I'm a talker and that helps, it helps a lot - especially if you know you're in a safe space.

I must really feel in a safe space here because I don't think anyone other than Jo knows all of this!

Tam

There are some parallels between depression and idiocy.

It can be hard to see that it is affecting you. It's difficult to know how much it consumes you. You can't just work your way out of it through willpower alone.

Daz

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Fair play

Rohit

Macho doesn't protect you. Are suicides a thing or a figment of our imagination?

The saddest part of this thread is a call for evidence and debate.

Don Pacifico

RocktheCasbah so glad you had people around looking out for you even if they couldn't directly help. The more empathy we can have in these situations (and all facets of life to be honest), the better. It's why it's important for people like Dele to speak out.

The brain is a tricksy bastard some times.

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