Expectations - 2023/2024 Season: Page 23 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Expectations - 2023/2024 Season

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Spurs haven't won anything for over twenty years. We won the FA Cup four years ago.

Judge us/Arteta versus who we're up against season-on-season. I'd say, we're still not the best team on paper in the league but we're level with City (who won a treble just last season) with a game in hand. For all the complaints about how we've performed this season, that's not bad.

awooga83

Don Pacifico I think the relevance of the spurs comparison for me is there recent high point was playing decent football getting near but not winning anything. Ultimately it's totally forgotten. If we don't win trophies in this moment in the scheme of football and the club it won't be a successful period even if it might feel great in the isolated moments.

It's hard against city for sure but Liverpool managed to get a league and champions League still, if you are good enough you can still get them. We aren't at the position we are because of city it's because of poor points dropped by us.

As for this season, we have to win until that City game on the 31st march. Get us to that point relentlessly chasing them.. That's the level we have to hit now. If we fall before that then that is a poor outcome.

goon

RocktheCasbah

Pretty much this. If you challenge every season or most seasons, the odds are you will win one or two big trophies along the way.

Doing anything to disrupt that pattern for superficial reasons is madness and potentially a massive act of self sabotage.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

I appreciate what you’re saying guys but if we find ourselves in a position to win the league this season, we MUST take it.

In life those that are successful have two things: speed and urgency. Cease the fucking moment and no regrets.

There is no tomorrow.

Coombs

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I've been fairly miserable about Arsenal this season, for whatever reason (probably my own issues). I think I would regret failing to enjoy myself watching the team more than I'd regret not winning the title. These aren't necessarily related, but if I can't separate them psychologically then I'm going to err toward enjoyment, even if we don't win. I'm not going to forget Nelson v Bournemouth just because we didn't end up with the PL trophy.

Basically, I feel like what you call seizing the moment is pretty much the total opposite for me. Seizing the moment isn't worrying about the points total in May, it's about celebrating our most recent win.

Don Pacifico

awooga83 We aren't at the position we are because of city it's because of poor points dropped by us.

I think every team challenging for a title believe they've dropped stupid points. As much as I've been frustrated by us at times this season, I just don't think you can say we've underachieved so far given that for all the points we've dropped, we've ground out our fair share of results too this season.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Each to their own mate.

For me that Nelson goal is worthless just as was Welbeck’s goal v Leicester nearly 8 years to the day.

Anyway, let’s see what happens.

Clrnc

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I get what you mean.

Actually if we miss out by just a few points it would be incredible painful to think back to Fulham and West Ham for e.g.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah most of them are pretty safe standard replies. It's still fairly logical to have us 3rd. However I think we'll pass Liverpool, with City I think it's less likely but it's not impossible. A KDB injury would be nice.

Also Leon Osman is a halfwit.

Burnwinter

I think we might pass Liverpool, but it's barely relevant is it?

I think next time we do this thread we should make it "Expectations and Aspirations" so we can distinguish between the realist and fantasist projections.

With City there is also a chance they receive a points penalty this season. We have to be poised for that possibility. A points penalty for the 115 charges seems a likelier outcome, with a precedent, compared to what should happen: stripping or asterisking all their historical trophy wins, extended transfer ban, etc.

QuincyAbeyie

Don Pacifico When City got close to 100 points and Liverpool did too, you can definitely that Liverpool would challenge and beat almost every other PL winner. They're trophy haul doesn't represent their quality because they've faced off against the most consistently well-performing PL team of all time.

However, with our current points per game we'd finish on 82 points, which would rarely be enough for the title. If we end up with 82 it'd definitely feel wrong to say that City is the reason we didn't win.

RocktheCasbah

Don Pacifico I think every team challenging for a title believe they've dropped stupid points

To borrow something else from my world of sport, whenever Ronnie O'Sullivan loses (and indeed sometimes when he wins), he talks about the amount of easy balls he's missed and how you can't do that. I guess, more often than not, the league champions end up being the team that miss the least easy balls - i.e. they win the majority, if not all, of the games they're supposed to. Mourinho's first Chelsea team were the absolute masters of this.

Burnwinter

QuincyAbeyie You have a point, but I reckon the reduced accumulated points totals don't so much reflect City declining, but the league on the whole improving. This season has been the one in which technical pressing and more organised defending became more or less ubiquitous. Any team that doesn't do it has been looking to install it, and plebs like Lampard are no longer in top flight management.

QuincyAbeyie

Burnwinter I don't really think the league is considerably better than just last season when City finished with 89 points. I'd agree that it's better than, say, five years ago.

goon

QuincyAbeyie

It's very hard to gauge based on points totals year on year, there's too many variables at play and marginals that can swing the points tally quite wildly. For example City could lose up to 8 points this year purely based on head to head games vs us and Liverpool (currently 5 points) without necessarily really being materially worse.

In terms of eye test I don't personally see a huge difference in City this year compared to last.

Burnwinter

QuincyAbeyie Well, difficult to measure but I do think we're seeing greater than average tactical sophistication now, relative to the recent past. You'd have to go club by club to date the modernisations. English clubs have also had more relative transfer power.

QuincyAbeyie

goon In terms of eye test I don't personally see a huge difference in City this year compared to last.

They weren't really phenomenal for much of last season either. They just always seem to turn it on for the last part of the season and win 10 games in a row.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

JazzG

We ended up conceding 21 goals in our next 14 games last season. We need to cut that by around 10 if you want to be in mix at the end imo

Big Willie

JazzG We ended up conceding 21 goals in our next 14 games last season. We need to cut that by around 10 if you want to be in mix at the end imo

Looks similar enough but we're 5 points off last season at this stage despite dropping 8 points in the 5 games between gameweek 20 and 24. We did then go on a 7 or 8 game winning streak before completely capitulating so hopefully this time around, we do the opposite and have gotten our shitty streak out the way before peaking towards the end of the season like is usually needed by the eventual winners.

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