Expectations - 2023/2024 Season: Page 22 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Expectations - 2023/2024 Season

RocktheCasbah

Yeah, as they were saying on the Tuesday Club, we took the lead in both games against Fulham for the sum total of 1 point... We're at that point now where Arteta has made us super competitive with the top teams, but in this league you have to beat the teams you're supposed to beat. We're nearly there - nearly...

flobaba

RocktheCasbah that's where a superstar striker makes a difference isn't it? They are accused of being flat track bullies but you absolutely need folks who would bully and dispatch the smaller teams on their own when they want to/have to even when the team as a whole isn't on their game.

Burnwinter

It's hard for me to believe we're all the way there. But on the other hand, we're only three actual points behind City, who are definitely there. It's one of those gaps that's greater or larger from different vantage points.

I want a strong finish to the season. From this flawed position in third, that would mean picking things up to a 90+ point pace, and finishing with 85+ overall.

Mirth

If we can get a result at City away, the league is blown wide open.

Big if though

goon

Mirth

It's going to be really interesting barometer of how much we've progressed since last season. I don't know what the result will be but I reckon we'll be far more competitive.

Lukazan

Mirth It would take one heck of a performance that's for sure considering how we've often played after going ahead in games. Hard to imagine completely shutting them out for an entire game at their place so we'd need to score a couple atleast.

Clrnc

A challenge right to till the end plus at least a semi final at UCL, I deem that as a good enough season all things considered. Yes I think I previously said going trophyless this season again will be disappointing but I am seeing the progress and improvements that I wanted to see in the team.

I like the trajectory

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Clrnc

The problem is how often will we be getting these chances? It’s all well saying trajectory but football is not linear and at some point you have to convert.

As we saw earlier this season there is no guarantee we will be better the following season. Also, no guarantee the same players stay. Ultimately players want medals. How long can we keep them without winning anything?

We need to make this season count.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Also, we shouldn’t normalise going trophyless every season. If we don’t win anything this season it will be 4 years without one which is far too long for a club like Arsenal.

As much as clubs get used to wining silverware (City) clubs can get used to the opposite (Spurs).

We must try and be like the former.

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 If we don’t win anything this season it will be 4 years without one which is far too long for a club like Arsenal.

We don't operate in a vacuum so timelines like that are quite arbitrary. That shouldn't diminish our ambition but we also don't need to self flagellate unnecessarily.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Don Pacifico

Fine but where do you draw the line? 6 years? 10 years? It’s not about arbitrary time frames but standards you need to implement otherwise we might as well be Spurs. Do you want to be labelled bottlers?

Progression has a time limit too. Only so much you can progress without showing anything for it.

RocktheCasbah

I'd also add that I think we have made clear progress season on season under Arteta - I accept everyone's mileage on that statement will vary, but it's where I am. Whilst I wouldn't be comfortable with saying Arteta can write his own cheques for the next five years, trophies or not, nor would I be comfortable with sacking off the progress he has made just because we haven't won the Premier League in this particular era.

It'd be a bit like Andy Murray turning it in just because he played in the same era as Federer, Djokovic & Nadal.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

RocktheCasbah

Even Andy Murray won 3 grand slams and a golden medal at the Olympics

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Spurs haven't won anything for over twenty years. We won the FA Cup four years ago.

Judge us/Arteta versus who we're up against season-on-season. I'd say, we're still not the best team on paper in the league but we're level with City (who won a treble just last season) with a game in hand. For all the complaints about how we've performed this season, that's not bad.

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 - Tier 1 he did, but do you remember how many years, how many final defeats, it took him to get the Olympics on the board?

My point is, it takes time to get to a level, then you have to stay at that level and then, eventually, if it all goes well, you become the level. I think we're on a good path with Arteta, but it isn't just going to happen for us.

Coombs

I just want it to be fun. I want us to play aspirational football without it feeling embarrassing (see mateball for reference), I want to celebrate great goals, feel like we can best anyone and deserve it, continue investing in the team (so things don't get stale), all while challenging for the biggest trophies. I want us to play football that makes for good conversation while waiting for the next match. The rest (silverware) is more luck than anything. Keep up the good work and the luck will come. Or it won't. That's the thing about luck.

lorddulaarsenal

Close to that now Coombs.

Performances have upped a level. We have a lot of good players close to returning from injury and the squad is such that one or two top tier additions in the summer sees us break in to European elite levels.

Osimhen and De Jong

daredevil

lorddulaarsenal

In my opinion, we are better this season, even though we have fewer points at this stage than last. Last season, we took the league by surprise, possessing the quality of a top 3 side whilst our opponents were still playing us like a Europa side. They pressed us high and we took them apart, and even in our most dominant games, the opponents had chances to score.

This season, we are facing more difficult and stifling tactics and it's demanding way more of our team to break the low blocks, yet they're doing admirably. Furthermore, we have suffocated teams in ways I have never seen before. Forget the usual, one or two chances, how many games have we played now where the opponent hasn't even had a sniff.

Unless, we are feeling charitable, teams just don't create against us and it's reflected in our goals conceded column, yet you can say we can improve there given the cheap goals we have conceded.

flobaba

lorddulaarsenal you seem to blow hot and cold on Osimhen. De Jong would be a dream or someone like him. Back to VO, he would be a handful for defenders physically and work extremely hard. Perhaps even moreso than Jesus currently does, but he's not going to improve us very much except perhaps aerially and holding up the ball. He'll get a few more goals than Jesus here probably, but for what he's going to cost, that is not enough. Basically an Ivan Toney on steroids. Since we chose not to go for Toney in January, I've cooled on him. Whilst I do appreciate what strikers like him and Osimhen can bring to our team, I would much rather we keep our keg dry for someone a tad more technical and fluid upfront if we can find an option we believe would grow into that sort of player.

That said, I'd gladly take either VO or Toney on a needs must basis based on availability alone - Jesus is as brittle as Zinchenko at this point, and I should think we should be looking to replace him as well this summer if we can.

goon

RocktheCasbah

Pretty much this. If you challenge every season or most seasons, the odds are you will win one or two big trophies along the way.

Doing anything to disrupt that pattern for superficial reasons is madness and potentially a massive act of self sabotage.

awooga83

Don Pacifico I think the relevance of the spurs comparison for me is there recent high point was playing decent football getting near but not winning anything. Ultimately it's totally forgotten. If we don't win trophies in this moment in the scheme of football and the club it won't be a successful period even if it might feel great in the isolated moments.

It's hard against city for sure but Liverpool managed to get a league and champions League still, if you are good enough you can still get them. We aren't at the position we are because of city it's because of poor points dropped by us.

As for this season, we have to win until that City game on the 31st march. Get us to that point relentlessly chasing them.. That's the level we have to hit now. If we fall before that then that is a poor outcome.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

I appreciate what you’re saying guys but if we find ourselves in a position to win the league this season, we MUST take it.

In life those that are successful have two things: speed and urgency. Cease the fucking moment and no regrets.

There is no tomorrow.

Coombs

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I've been fairly miserable about Arsenal this season, for whatever reason (probably my own issues). I think I would regret failing to enjoy myself watching the team more than I'd regret not winning the title. These aren't necessarily related, but if I can't separate them psychologically then I'm going to err toward enjoyment, even if we don't win. I'm not going to forget Nelson v Bournemouth just because we didn't end up with the PL trophy.

Basically, I feel like what you call seizing the moment is pretty much the total opposite for me. Seizing the moment isn't worrying about the points total in May, it's about celebrating our most recent win.

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