Expectations - 2023/2024 Season: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Expectations - 2023/2024 Season

KingslandBarge

Would agree with embracing a holistic assessment of campaigns but trophies is still a hallmark of success. More so than ever, if this article is accurate in indicating 600 million spend (530 net): https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2023/07/05/arsenal-reach-600-million-arteta-rice-timber-transferf/
Interested to see what happens to White, Tomiyasu and Vieira by seasons end - 100 million worth of investment.

Don Pacifico

Qwiss Progress always has to be towards the goal of winning big trophies at Arsenal.

I agree with this but I think big is the operative word here.

I'd take five years of no trophies if we won the league in the sixth season versus five seasons winning a domestic up or two and never winning the league.

Conversely, if Arteta won the FA cup next season but we dropped out of the top four, I'd consider that worse that no trophies but finishing in 2nd place again.

Clrnc

Don Pacifico Nah.

Trophies >>> fake achievements

I would rather win a Carabao cup and finished 4th than win nothing and finish 2nd.

I would rather win the Europa League and finish out of top 4 than win nothing and finish in top 4.

flobaba

Not trophying is not good for brand or business. Ask old Harold Kane and Levy's merry band down the road.

Trophy > no Trophy
And The sooner you trophy, the better.

Qwiss

flobaba agreed. The likes of Odegaard and Saliba won't stay here if they aren't winning things.

Burnwinter

flobaba I reckon the aim is to win and our transfer strategy is telling the players that, but I can't see myself expecting us to win against the City we saw last season.

We'll give them a close run if we execute near perfectly, but equally it could be all over by November with one little slump.

TambourineMan

Title push and a trophy.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

I think full expectations will be determined on 1st Sept when we know exact outgoings/incomings as that will have the biggest impact on our season.

Kel Varnsen

A few things:
Top three in the league and in the race all season.
CL semi finals.
A cup final.

lorddulaarsenal

I’d also like us to beat City - still a bit of a mental hurdle that one

Burnwinter

lorddulaarsenal Do the double over them I reckon we win the league.

Big Willie

Ricky1985 and Clrnc

Agree with both of you to a certain extent. Only trophy I couldn't give a shit about is the League Cup. But aside from that trophies over anything else. Think I've mentioned it in the past but for me the order of priority/importance/measure of success is as follows:

Winning the PL/CL
Winning the FA Cup
Serious challenge for the PL.
Finishing Top 3/4.
Deep run into the CL.
Winning the League Cup.

Ricky1985

90 points and pipped to the title by City versus 70 points lagging behind the likes of United and Newcastle just for a poxy Carabao Cup...

It's not even a question for me.

As an aside, I expect the Carabao Cup to become a semi-youth competiton for us again now that we're back in the big time where we belong!

Clrnc

Ricky1985 90 points and pipped to the title by City versus 70 points lagging behind the likes of United and Newcastle just for a poxy Carabao Cup...

Putting the pressure on trophy is just small time, we used to laugh at Spuds for their 15/16 season.

If you finish 2nd 10 years in a row, your reputation will take a serious hit as perennial bottlers and a club that is trophyless. Wenger came close many times after the invincibles, do you remember any of those seasons with happiness?

Carabao cup might be the lowest cup competition we have, but I do remember how excited all of us were in the 06/07 final, how heartbreaking it was to lose, and also the 11/12 carabao final. Just look at how the previous cup winners there celebrated passionately, including City.

Mirth

Big Willie Since you have the FA Cup ahead of a serious challenge for the PL I have to ask - do you feel more optimistic/connected with the club now or after one of many FA cup wins over the past 10 years?

It's a hard one for me to answer tbh - the joy of winning the FA Cup hits higher on the day itself but a serious title challenge has put a spring in my step for the past 8-9 months or more!

Ricky1985

Clrnc
Listen, I enjoyed last season a ton. Right up until the end when we feel apart due to a bit of nerves and those cruel injuries. It was a privilige to watch us play every week.

I'm not swapping that for a season where 7 or 8 of those wins are turned into miserable defeats. I would much rather watch my team bringing it every week, mixing it with the best, than play like they did in the last few years under Wenger or Emery, where they barely looked like they gave shit most weeks, for a tinpot cup like the Carabao. That shit does nothing for your "brand" anyway. No one cares or remembers except the team who wins it.

flobaba

A trophy > not a trophy.
West Ham fans will be buzzing for the next 50 years.

Clrnc

Mirth It's a hard one for me to answer tbh - the joy of winning the FA Cup hits higher on the day itself but a serious title challenge has put a spring in my step for the past 8-9 months or more!

The happiness for us this season is more down to the fact that the future of the club looks bright, the title challenge is unexpected after so many seasons of under-performing, and that it is our first time we are challenging for the title in almost a decade.

I guarantee you if we have 4 more of this exact season without a single trophy the feeling will be very different, and the players will be edging to leave.

Big Willie

Mirth Since you have the FA Cup ahead of a serious challenge for the PL I have to ask - do you feel more optimistic/connected with the club now or after one of many FA cup wins over the past 10 years?

Honestly, just challenging for the title and not winning it definitely is behind winning the FA Cup for me. Winning the FA Cup, as it is a cup competition, may be covering the cracks somewhat but it is emphatically a better outcome for that specific season that winning nothing and just challening for the title.

The only benefit of challenging, but not winning the title, has over the FA Cup is that it shows you are a strong team with a chance of winning something the next year, be it a CL/League title or an FA Cup.

However for any specific season, just finishing second, even when being pipped for the league by even a single point, does not make for a better season than winning the FA Cup.

flobaba

Ricky1985 you have to think though - the truth is the main reason why last season was so enjoyable was because we were suddenly and unexpectedly on the ups. After being garbage for close to a decade. If you recall even when we were steadily qualifying for champions league- when Wenger made top 4 like a trophy, there were grumblings and rumblings of dissatisfaction all about the place (it wasn’t enough for me).

The only place where it is okay to stagnate is right at the top. If you’re not there, or headed in that direction, and you’re not winning trophies, tin pot or not, then it’s pointless.

Mirth

Clrnc I guarantee you if we have 4 more of this exact season without a single trophy the feeling will be very different, and the players will be edging to leave.

They'll be pushing to leave if we won the FA Cup for 4 seasons in a row too.

If you're challenging for the title, particularly against a team like Man City, the future of your club is bright anyway. Whereas a cup win isn't really indicative of a systematic improvement in the clubs prospects.

Ricky1985

flobaba

Yup, I agree with that. But the experience of watching us play with such commitment and intensity does not come from a team plodding its way to 4th place. The ambition running through the club is what makes us such fun!

If we finish on ~ 90 points next season in what is by far the best league in the world, we will be in for an absolute treat watching the team again pretty much every single week. If we also finish second because City get 91 points or whatever, it will suck, but if the drive and ambition remains, everything will just keeping getting better.

No lifeless, miserable 4th place finish is worth that for a Carabao Cup, surely? Even if we never quite manage to overhaul City.

And I'm not so sure complacency and stagnation would be fun even at the top - which underscores my point.

Don Pacifico

flobaba After being garbage for close to a decade. If you recall even when we were steadily qualifying for champions league- when Wenger made top 4 like a trophy, there were grumblings and rumblings of dissatisfaction all about the place (it wasn’t enough for me).

So I think that was a reflection of the fact there were no outwards signs of progress (more signs that we were in stasis or in reality, a very slow decline). And that's the point for me, taking joy in the progress. Winning a domestic cup wouldn't necessarily represent progress (as much as I would enjoy the win).

Also, when we won multiple FA cups towards the end of Wenger's reign, Sanchez still wanted to leave...because we showed no signs of progressing in the league or in Europe.

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