Kai Havertz: Page 37 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Kai Havertz

Coombs

flobaba I mean, was he? You decided that, but Arteta doesn't seem to have any such ideas. He's a cross-country runner, that's the upgrade on Xhaka, not his attacking play. Xhaka was always slow to get back, even at his best. Havertz catches everyone up like he isn't even trying (and maybe he isn't, but that's not really the point).

We look better with Havertz than without this season. It's not want people want to hear, it's dull and boring and feels totally anti-attacking, but at some point don't we have to just assume that what we are seeing isn't some anomaly, but actually precisely what Arteta wanted?

Look, I'm not happy with this season so far, and I'm not happy with Havertz's contribution to making it that way. I just don't think its a coincidence that our attacking 5 have struggled all season no matter who is playing, and I don't think Havertz is immune to the overall problem with our attack.

Qwiss

Coombs We look better with Havertz than without this season.

Not really. We've lost 2 games, he started both.

Coombs

awooga83 for sure. It's not a positive, its just a broader analysis. At a certain point, you gotta think that the way he's playing is part of something bigger, despite the individual problems.

goon

Think these been an ever so slight upturn in what he’s been giving us in the last couple of games. I’d keep starting him as an 8.

Think he needs to spend more time in and around the box.

Coombs

Qwiss Who else started both of those games?

Qwiss

Coombs Jorginho. We also dropped points against Fulham with Havertz in the team.

I really don't think we play better with him. Think the midfield looked better when Vieira was in form and when ESR got to start. They have their faults but at least they move the ball forward.

Coombs

Qwiss lots of players started all those games, it doesn't say much. I think Vieira is probably worse than Havertz on balance, though he does carry more goal threat (again, not sure this is the point). I'd love it if ESR got an extended run in the team, but I think we've found out why he doesn't in recent days. Guy can't be taken seriously if he can't manage to start one game without breaking down. When he did start, he didn't do much more than Havertz going forward.

Again, you might not like it, and I don't either, but we don't actually have better options.

goon

I don’t think Havertz is someone you want to depend on getting the ball forward, he needs to make his career here on making runs beyond, getting in the box, getting on the end of things and little exchanges in and around the box.

In short, he needs to play more like a 10.

Qwiss

Coombs the way out teams balanced I think Vieira is the better option for most games. He gives more technical security and more penetration. Now that we've played Newcastle away I'm failing to think of another game that requires a big guy who wins 50% of his headers. Maybe Everton away?

Coombs

Qwiss the way we're set up, I don't think anyone will do much of anything at left 8 except pass backwards, track back, and press. Out of the two wasters we're talking about, Havertz seems like the better fit, both in theory and to my eye.

I'm not saying he's good, I just don't think we have another answer until Mikel let's the team attack again.

Gazza M

vieira, havertz, lokonga. what a waste of 110m. people were way too comfortable about us taking these random punts, and this is exactly what i feared it would lead to - we're sat here years later playing another round of whackamole, trying to fix a halfbaked midfield despite being multiple years deep into the 'project'.

we've seen the impact proper midfielder ls can have (partey, rice). why casually piss money up a wall?

goon

Gazza M

Sambi was from another era of squad building, and really that 15m is a drop in the ocean.

Vieira I think could still be worth the investment, but he needs more serious game time to develop. I’d like to see him and Havertz start tomorrow.

As for half baked midfield, I’d say Odegaaed, Rice, Partey, Havertz, Vieira, ESR and Jorginho is still as good a midfield as you’ll find anywhere.

Gazza M

goon melt jorginho, vieira and havertz down into 1 proper midfielder that actually moves the needle. the more you sign mediocrities the more constant revamping work you have to do. we're now in a place where we have to replace partey, for example.

QuincyAbeyie

So we have the best midfield in the world and can't even get that to work.

goon

Gazza M

Yeah maybe, but that’s always going to be the case in most areas of the pitch and at most clubs.

I think Havertz was supposed to be the fully baked solution but he’s come out looking like cookie doe.

Qwiss

I don't mind Vieira, its the sort of acceptable risk you take. Jorginho and Havertz bother me, roll them into one good signing and we'd look a much better team. I'm still baffled by the Havertz transfer given his price, wage, etc he should have been much more of a sure thing.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Slowly getting better. Should have finished his dinner tonight esp that header but on a slight upward trajectory now. Seems to be better as RCM than LCM.

Qwiss

Definitely played better than against Newcastle and looked a bit more confident but also had some really sloppy moments.

flobaba

Does everything well.

Except when it's time to make an impact. Except in the big moments.

That's one of the worst characteristics a footballer can have.

Qwiss

flobaba and he doesn't get into the game enough. Just mentioned it in another thread that he just doesn't get on the ball like our best mids or even Xhaka last season. Even in games like last night where we are so dominant he doesn't get on the ball as much as Rice and Jorginho. If Ode had played instead in a game like that you expect him on the ball as much or more.

If Ode fucks up an attack a couple of times but then scores or assists you dismiss the bad stuff. Havertz does half as much as Ode so doesn't have as many chances to contribute. Need to fix the first part to start regularly contributing IMO.

goon

flobaba

He's missing conviction with pretty much every aspect of his game at the moment, not just big moments. Even his runs are slightly delayed.

He needs to do everything half a second quicker and with more purpose and he'll start to make a big impact.

IBL

Annoyingly in the pre-season friendlies he did make it count in the big moments by scoring those goals. Needs to find that mojo again.

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