Arsenal v Brighton Sunday May 14th 1630 PM GMT: Page 4 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal v Brighton Sunday May 14th 1630 PM GMT

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Why not look at his performances v Chelsea and Newcastle instead?

QuincyAbeyie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 are you asking why he only included the performances that had actually happened and not the ones that would go on to happen afterwards?

Don Pacifico

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Liverpool we can potentially ignore but I think there was unanimous disappointment in his performance versus Sporting. Whilst that didn't need to be a permanent blot on his copybook it also didn't inspire confidence for him to come into the side (in an unfamiliar position) in some crunch matches for us.

Great that it's worked out for him when he did come into the side but I can't help but feel it's a bit lazy to suggest having Kiwior in the side would have meant we won those matches as there isn't enough evidence to prove that.

Clrnc

Don Pacifico The argument wasn't that. He was obviously rusty.

The argument was why did we not blood him earlier? He was on the bench with 0 minutes for a good 1-2 months when he could have came on for half an hour when we won games already, started at home in easier matches etc.

banduan

am I the only one who thinks Rambo didn't actually pass the ball straight to the Soton player?

banduan

Burnwinter

Clrnc The argument wasn't that. He was obviously rusty.

Maybe, but we weren't saying he was obviously just rusty until he'd actually put in a decent performance. For all we knew he was just young, green and not adapted to the league.

Absolutely true we should've had a clearer answer to that question sooner, though. The more I think about it, the more I tend to conclude that Arteta gets both the credit for the great achievements of this team this season, and the criticism for these little failures in the margins of his approach as well.

Don Pacifico

Clrnc yeah, I don't disagree that we should have integrated him more but I don't think that's specifically what Sicario was asserting...?

RowJimmy

Most likely he learned something about how we want to play in training.

Clrnc

Don Pacifico I mean we say there isn't enough evidence he should be in the side earlier because of the Sporting performance, but it begs the question why wasn't there enough evidence from a 20m buy, a Polish national starter who just shone in the World Cup a month ago before he joined us. I don't agree that it's lazy to suggest that tbh. Agree with Burns we should have had an answer to that way sooner.

Anyway, what's done is done. Even with Holding, we should absolutely have seen off Westhampton.

goon

Arteta is generally slow to trust players, but that's still a reductive take, there's all sorts of reasons why a player might not be ready regardless of what the 'evidence' says about his long term prospects.

It's easy to say in hindsight but In what games would you have integrated him earlier, before or after Sporting? When you're on a title charge and every point counts you're in it really isn't that easy.

Clrnc

goon Before Sporting, he probably should have come on when we are 3 goals up against Everton and Fulham but that's not the big deal. When we knew Saliba is injured then he should have had more game time against Palace and Leeds, instead of suddenly getting thrown into Anfield a week later etc. Reeks of immature planning tbh.

Then all of a sudden he gets thrown into Chelsea and one of the hardest away ground too. Just don't really make sense overall.

If I were to guess, you are right in the sense Arteta don't really trust players initially and is very conservative as evident from many instances. He only tries something new when his hands get forced (Holding's performance at Ettihad)

Don Pacifico

goon that's fair. I agree with you on both counts actually. There's an overarching point around Arteta's reluctance to rotate but as you say, there wasn't really great opportunity to do that in Kiwior's case (plus rotating CBs is often trickier given the role that partnerships play in that part of the pitch).

And on the point re: long-term potential (scouting, World Cup performances etc.), I think it's a little redundant - sometimes players just don't fit into a system or are unable to make the step-up required. Scouting is (to a degree) educated guesswork. Proof is in the pudding etc.

goon

Clrnc

Yeah good point on subs. I personally wouldn't have played him against Liverpool or even West Ham as I don't think there was enough evidence that things were going wrong, the emphasis was more on how we were dealing with pressure. I think Southampton would have been a good game to try him though in anticipation of playing City, especially when Arteta felt compelled to sub Holding at half time in the FA Cup.

Clrnc

Webster and March out for them. Great news for us

Rohit

Guardiola complaining about fixtures, lamenting not being scheduled to play on Saturday because of Eurovision in Liverpool. They play on Sunday and then Real on Wednesday with the tie evenly poised. There is no doubt which match of the two is their biggest of the season, especially given the quality of potential CL final opposition. There is a good chance they drop points. What a boost that could be.

Clrnc

Rohit don't so this to yourself. 🙁

Burnwinter

If City drop points this weekend and we don't, it's definitely back on and that'll be the narrative. I'm not super hopeful but it'd certainly spice up the last couple of matches!

lorddulaarsenal

Everton get a point on Sunday - we win out, and Mudryk scores the winner for Chelsea against City.

daredevil

City could drop Haaland, De Bruyne and Silva and still be playing Mahrez would was a starter for two different PL winners, Foden who was a starter in a previous PL winning City team and Alvarez who was a starter for the World Cup winners. Their squad is comically good and just as likely to win the title in its own right.

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