Arsenal v Brighton Sunday May 14th 1630 PM GMT: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal v Brighton Sunday May 14th 1630 PM GMT

Doc

We were really solid for the majority of the first half of the season.. think our XGA backs that up.. Second half has been poor even if we have become more attacking side

Remember feeling really confident against any set play we had against us, thats the biggest part that has seemingly gone south..

goon

Gurgen

Might be unfair to pin it on him, but there’s bad and then there’s baaaad

RocktheCasbah

goon I was just about to say, not really his fault that Aaron Ramsdale passed the ball straight to Carlos Alcaraz after 30 seconds - and then I remembered that it kind of was...

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah not really his fault that Aaron Ramsdale passed the ball straight to Carlos Alcaraz after 30 seconds - and then I remembered that it kind of was...

It was? How?

Burnwinter

goon At home we should have their number, I'm not sure how clear they are on what they're playing for now either—they're giving up on the Champions League and having to play for the Europa which is an odd moment in any season. They'll be organised but we'll have quality.

Qwiss

Burnwinter thought they looked on the beach last week. Interesting to see if that continues or if they snap out of it.

Tam

They've got us then Newcastle away. Good to give them a few losses in a row and hope they need to fight for something come their game against City.

RocktheCasbah

Qwiss

Holding was available in space to the right of Ramsdale, but didn't want the ball so pointed Ramsdale to the player on the edge of the box, which is where the ball went only for Alcaraz to intercept. Someone pointed this out on Twitter after the game, can't remember who now.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah there are a lot of very big leaps made to blame Holding for goals conceded in those games. At no point does Ramsdale shape like he's even thinking of playing it to his right. Or his left which is also wide open.

Burnwinter

Qwiss The strongest arguments about Holding were to do with our build-up, for instance he very much struggled to beat the press and played a far higher proportion of long balls than Saliba had usually done during the season. I didn't necessarily pick this up watching, but it's statistically true.

He wasn't a disaster but overall he's a good big level below in mobility and execution. Same situation today I would still select him over Kiwior but the latter may warm to the league …

Burnwinter

Burnwinter Same situation today I would still select him over Kiwior

I mean, what were we going to do, send out a slightly uncertain kid with half an hour of league minutes to be traumatised at Anfield? We would've needed to blood Kiwior properly much earlier to consider anything like that.

goon

There's a stat going around too that our defensive line dropped significantly when he came into the team too, which impacts how compact the side can be. I think our press was suffering because of that, Partey seemed to have to cover acres of space at times.

Holding isn't actually a bad defender and it's not really his fault, he's just not suited for our current style of play. It puts a huge demand on his biggest flaws (lack of pace, having to cover big spaces, not liking people running at him, passing under pressure). As much as it sounds like scapegoating, I think it's pretty obvious it impacts players around him too.

Burnwinter

goon There's a stat going around too that our defensive line dropped significantly when he came into the team too, which impacts how compact the side can be.

Yeah that would make sense, when he played there were some broad acres of space in midfield that we struggled to control. I still think Arteta didn't adapt us enough tactically.

Holding is a fine player he just has limitations as an athlete. He'd flourish at other clubs but he's been a good servant of Arsenal despite the rare moment of horror.

Doc

goon There's a stat going around too that our defensive line dropped significantly when he came into the team too, which impacts how compact the side can be.

Think the Southampton 2nd goal is a pretty good example of why we struggle with him in the team... Line is to low and he is not tight enough to Alcaraz so he backs off and we are unable to squeeze the play.. Has way too much time on the ball and it ends up in a goal.

Qwiss

goon There's a stat going around too that our defensive line dropped significantly when he came into the team too, which impacts how compact the side can be.

I'd like to see that broken down more TBH. For instance the times before and after Liverpool and WHUs first goals. My impression is that we dropped deep not because of Holding but because we got nervous and went into our shell.

Qwiss

Doc the Walcott goal? We were still moving up the pitch when the ball was lost. That had nothing to do with how high our line was or how we press because we hadn't reached where our line was.

yuppa

Not here to defend Holding overall, coz we've looked better without him, but blaming him for a Ramsdale error because he pointed towards another option is peak Arsenal twitter. Gabriel has space and time on the left and Ramsdale blunders, full stop. On the Southampton second - he's possibly dropping back to provide a passing option while we turn it over cheaply and allow them to run at us, maybe he should have closed down quicker but holding the space is hardly a massive blunder...I don't know, still seems like blaming him in situations where others have blundered worse is a bit cheap.

Jorginho in a sitting role managing distribution in front of Kiwior has worked well and would have taken away the 'let Holding have it' tactic that teams were playing - Arteta should have used it sooner (ie Liverpool).

I honestly hope that Holding has had his last minutes in an Arsenal shirt, but the way he's been scapegoated for some poor overall performances rankles.

Doc

yuppa but holding the space is hardly a massive blunder..

It's not a massive blunder, don't really care about the goal... Everyone in the team makes mistakes.. it is to do with the fact that he effects the way we play as a team.. We cant squeeze the space and put massive pressure on the opposition which is essential to our game ... I'm not scapgoating Holding for it if anything it's more the managers fault for not changing things tactically to accommodate this when we have had to play him.. Hard to do that on the fly at the business end of the season... We fundamentally play a style of play that does not suit him unfortunately.

Anyway I've been a massive supporter of Holding in general up until this season where it has become evident that he does not suit our style. Wouldn't actually mind him staying being 5th choice and coming on in a 3AB when we are 'holding' on as it suits him plus he has a positive influence off field on the team...

Not every criticism of a player is scapegoating.......

Sicario2 - Tier 1

I was at the Southampton game and was sitting in lower North Bank directly behind where Holding was playing out from first half.

I really detested how he played, he was so slow and ponderous on the ball, took about 5 touches more or less every time and would rarely pass forward, either it was back to Ramsdale or sideways to Gabriel.

In the 2nd half he was a lot sharper as his passing was one touch at times and he generally showed more urgency, Artera definitely gave him a rollocking at HT.

He honestly should never wear an Arsenal shirt again, nice guy but total liability. The Pole has showed him up in just two games.

goon

Yeah, citing someone having a negative impact isn't blaming them, excusing others or saying those mistakes were inevitable.

But the reality is if we can acknowledge that Saliba has had a transformative impact on how we play and those around him then it follows that the same would be true if you put someone in there who's unsuitable for our style of play.

Burnwinter

goon Yeah, citing someone having a negative impact isn't blaming them

Any way you spin it, if bringing in your fourth string centre half for several weeks isn't a noticeable step down then he'd better be 18 years old, otherwise you might have a bit of a coaching problem.

Clrnc

Yeah, I am of the opinion we made a mistake starting Holding over Kiwior but the Ramsdale error was really just... Ramsdale. There's absolutely no reason why he should pass it straight to the Southampton player. No arsenal player was near the ball in that area than the 2 Southampton players.

Burnwinter

Clrnc the Ramsdale error was really just... Ramsdale

You would have to have one of those "agenda" things we sometimes talk about on OMITT to blame that on Rob … or just be the average football Twitter type I guess.

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