Arteta, crumbles under pressure?: Page 4 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta, crumbles under pressure?

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Big Willie
Don’t play Holding period, he is the common denominator for this and last season. Are you just going to blame injuries on every time we end a season poorly?

Clrnc
Football doesn’t stand still. People still loved Wenger in 2008, just two years later there were questions about him and effectively beginning of the end.

Expectations and circumstances change too and the main difference between now and then is that this a is 80 percent Arteta’s side. No longer can we blame Emery dud signings or Wenger’s dead wood to excuse Arteta.

Arteta signed Vieria, Arteta signed Kiowr (who doesn’t play) to name a few. Arteta chose Jesus as our number 9. He is the one that doesn’t play ESR any more. He is the one that chooses Holding or plays Saliba in EL.

He got us out of a crisis at the time he joined and obviously changed the mentally and culture of the club but now he has been here 3.5 years he needs to be held accountable when things don’t go well. I don’t see this as such a big deal.

As I said next season is crucial as he needs to deliver trophies.

SimplyThePest

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I feel a bit bad for Holding, the bloke is a decent player in a system that suits him. Remember what happened when Villas-Boas went to Chelsea, played a line higher than the Burj Khalifa and made John Terry look like Pascal Cygan on a bad day? For me, the issue is that Arteta probably won't adjust to accommodate available players.

Coombs

SimplyThePest For me, the issue is that Arteta probably won't adjust to accommodate available players.

Which is why having different players available is the key to success. Managers that make do with what they've got coach Cinderella teams or relegation fodder. Arsenal are neither. We need to back the coach to be successful, not ask for compromise and pragmatism.

jones

Claudius this season it all came together but not before there was a massive outlay on a bunch of readymade players. Why ignore everything up to this season

Claudius

jones is that a serious question? You want to kill a manager for not succeeding with a bunch of players who are unsuited to his football vision?

If Arteta was still 8th with this new set of players maybe you’d have a point. But he’s bought new guys, taken us from one of the oldest teams to 2nd youngest, and top of the table. But yeah, let’s complain because he couldn’t win with Kolasinac and Pepe.

banduan

Just like last season we were doing better than expected, so was this season. Choking yet again and Arteta clearly still not knowing when to sub (something he could not learn from Pep who has the same problem) is definitely painful, but I don't want to lose perspective on our expectations at the start of the season and now. We've got to keep pushing Citeh, and if we still fail, it's still been a good season with the exception of the awful UEL defeat.

Burnwinter

It's about the track we're on. If next season we're still pushing City and winning big matches against the likes of United and Liverpool, as well as setting back new contenders like Newcastle, while also enjoying Europe, I'll be quite happy.

But the best way there is an upset win over City tomorrow.

jones

Claudius bro you need to read what I actually wrote not what you think I wrote. Then you need to decide whether Arteta improves all players or if there are players he can't improve

goon

The problem with talking about 'bottling it' is that it distracts from the actual issues. People talk about intangibles like man management and motivation instead of things that are much easier to control. Pressure will always be there, but you can do things to make the team more resilient and I don't mean mentally.

Looking at the last three games, when the pressure started taking it's toll and our passing and technical ability went wayward and decision making slower, we had nothing to fall back on. We were losing all the duels, in the air, on the ground, 2nd balls etc. We had no way (other than Martinelli) to re-impose ourselves on the game or to find a semblance of control.

This is why I think adding players like Caicedo and Rice is vital this summer, because they can help us compete in a different way. Dealing with pressure in the first place is easier if you don't start losing all the aerial battles and second balls. Even if someone gives it away, if Caicedo or Rice help mop up, crisis is averted.

Clrnc

goon it will help, but only to a certain extent. We lost the tactical battle more than any mental ones.

flobaba

goon we fixed it during the January window, didn't we? We brought in Jorginho. Is he injured? If he's not, what was the purpose of signing him if we weren't going to use him for the exact purpose or scenario for which we got him?

Burnwinter

goon Looking at the last three games, when the pressure started taking it's toll and our passing and technical ability went wayward and decision making slower, we had nothing to fall back on. We were losing all the duels, in the air, on the ground, 2nd balls etc. We had no way (other than Martinelli) to re-impose ourselves on the game or to find a semblance of control.

This is where I feel Arteta has had the opportunity to do a bit better. My sense is he's been a conservative manager here and explained these bad periods in terms of our opponents rather than changing our setup.

I felt like against West Ham we should've already had a plan B to compensate for Saliba's (and also in that match Zinchenko's) absences, but it was as if Anfield exceptionalism had led him to think that wouldn't be needed.

Hoping we have a real, drilled solution to be more compact and controlled against City as we have to be a lot more capable of retaining the ball and resisting the press than we have been in adversity.

goon

Clrnc that's basically my point. Those guys would help with the tactical and physical battle. We need a midfield that can compete in any scenario. When structure is lost Odegaard and Xhaka are only good for chasing shadows and occupying space.

flobaba Absolutely think it was a mistake not brining Jorginho on against Liverpool as a second 8 fwiw, but even then he's not comparable to the physicality and athleticism the other two bring to the table. Jorginho was needs must, a band aid. He has no realistic prospect of making the first XI on merit.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

flobaba

Exactly. The same thing can be said about Kiowr. We spent £20m on him but when two defenders go down we fall back on Holding? Can someone please tell me the point of this signing?

If we signed proper players instead of Kiowr and Vieira we would be in a much better and secure position.

Qwiss

flobaba have to admit the Jorginho signing is looking worse and worse each passing week. First couple of games it looked like good business but then he had a poor game or two and disappeared completely. Seems like he's another player Arteta doesn't trust. We have to stop buying players that he doesn't really want because it only hurts us in the long run. I could certainly see Jorginho being gone either sold or on loan at the start of next season. He was never cut out for high intensity football.

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Kiwior is the back up for Gabriel. It really shouldn't be that hard to work out why he's not playing instead of Rob Holding.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Indeed. Our squad signings have been mostly dog shit.

Tam

goon I'm surprised at how little Jorginho has been used recently considering what we've read about Arteta's view on him.

I think we need a bit of an overhaul of the midfield come summer. Not just personnel, but shape and roles. It's more than just replacing Xhaka and Partey with players, those replacements will inevitably impact on how we play and we'll need to adjust to that.

Clrnc

goon We need a midfield that can compete in any scenario. When structure is lost Odegaard and Xhaka are only good for chasing shadows and occupying space.

The question is, why can't we be more flexible with our tactics? Surely it shouldn't be that difficult to change it up against Soton and West Ham? Or even Sporting? Even our fringe players are better than them

Sicario2 - Tier 1

RocktheCasbah

I don’t buy this left foot right foot CB BS

You can’t be that rigid as a manager.

Playing Holding period is more of a risk than anything.

#anotherblindspot

Claudius

Sicario2 - Tier 1 the RB/LB thing is actually well thought out. It’s about advancing the ball out out from the back efficiently

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 - Tier 1 well, just because you don't buy it, doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. As Claudius had said, it's about having the right angles to play out from. Besides which, Rob Holding is not so bad that he can't do a job, the issue is he can't do the same job as Saliba.

Logically, is there anything about Kiwior's early appearances in the first team which leads you to conclude he could do the same job as Saliba? Because that's basically what you want.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

RocktheCasbah

1) The Pole has a lot of pace, a lot more than Holding. Therefore, we can afford to play a high line. The negative domino effect of playing Holding (to the entire rest of the team) will be mitigated. He is less likely to pick up yellow cards or get sent off if he loses his man like Holding often does (see Son last year as prime example).

2) He is a better footballer than Holding and can pass out better from the back meaning Partey doesn’t have to play so deep to cover him. Kiowr’s passing is more progressive too meaning we can attack in a lot more coherent way.

3) There is no emotional baggage with the Pole. He doesn’t give out negative energy to the rest of the team.

4) He is more physical and better in the air than Holding. Bloody Holding lost a header to the giant Sterling a few years ago.

5) He is not Rob Holding. That in itself is upside.

If you can’t tell, I view Holding as an absolute liability - the same as Mustafi. He is our Maguire unfortunately.

Burnwinter

Sicario2 - Tier 1 There is no emotional baggage with the Pole.

That's absolute nonsense, he looks totally uncertain when he plays. Holding doesn't always look secure but the idea people are gonna feel totally secure going out at City with a roll of the dice on Kiwior is flat wrong.

goon

I remember when everyone thought Pep was a fool for placing such an emphasis on how a goalkeeper is with his feet. How we all laughed at Bravo. Now it's just seen as an obvious advantage with teams down the league asking their keepers to pass the ball.

That's when I realised that probably guys like Pep know a thing or two more than us, and why the best teams in the league now regularly get over 90 points rather than 80, because of those all those incremental gains.

Claudius

goon
Exactly Goon. These are now highly optimised systems. It’s a bit like engineering an industrial process for maximum output. You need the right people in the right places.

In the absence of Saliba, you see certain things - Partey is dropping back into the back line to get the ball from the goalie. Unfortunately that means he is not available to receive the ball and help break the press. So we find it harder to progress quickly. There are lots of little things like this that are starting to add up. And the sum total is we don’t contour games the way we would want.

jones

goon Who's "everyone"? You could be forgiven for laughing at Guardiola for sticking with Bravo who was past it when he came to City (even that fall off came unexpectedly quick) but don't think many outside dumb yer da pundits thought it was really a dumb decision in general did they

« Previous Page Next Page »