Arteta, crumbles under pressure?: Page 8 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arteta, crumbles under pressure?

QuincyAbeyie

RocktheCasbah My uncle thinks we've bottled it, and he's angry about it and maybe, if you look at the last three weeks, he's right to be, but I just see a reversion to the mean.

Come on, man. I discussed with you just before our streak started and you thought it would be very hard for us to lose the title. Surely if the four last games are us "reversing to the mean" you wouldn't have said that. If you expected us to win the title just a few matches ago then why talk as if this outcome was inevitable?

Also, reversing to the mean when we've been overperforming is supposed to be about going back to our expected level so that in the long-term, the overperformance period won't be noticeable. It's not supposed to be falling to a level so far beneath our "mean" that it nullifies the other period.

If you get tails four times in a row the expectation isn't that you get heads the next four times - it's still that you'll get tails two times and heads two times.

RocktheCasbah

QuincyAbeyie I guess what I'm saying - and why do my posts always seem to generate such a strong reaction in you? - is that the guys have played out of their skins all season. Maybe a drop off at the business end of the season whilst not "inevitable", wasn't that surprising.

I thought we'd carry it through, I was wrong. I'm not going to throw the team, or myself, in front of a train just because a team which was on course for 99 points 4 games ago will now be lucky to get to 90.

Qwiss

goon If Saka isn't World class there are around 3 World Class player in the Premier League.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Qwiss

Saka gone missing last 3/4 games at most critical point. That is not WC. Also his record in big away games over the last 12 months is poor.

Plus I don’t think anyone can be truly world class until they have proven themselves in CL regardless.

goon

Qwiss

'World class' debates are always shady because everyone has their own definition. But for me as a forward he needs to feel a more 'inevitable' before I'd put him in that category. He'll get there for sure though, just needs to develop some knowhow.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah or dare I say it, a Cesc.

Saka is as good now as Cesc was when he was here. A couple of bad games don't change that. Cesc had off spells too, the reality is he couldn't save us from blowing the title either.

Gazza M

Qwiss I have residual ill feelings about cescs character off the pitch, I think he's a snaky operator. however, I don't feel he ever did a crunch-time disappearing act for 2 months during his time at arsenal. it was always external factors like injuries that hampered his ability to deliver for us. and this was when we were still. juggling CL football demands for me, saka still quite a ways to go before I can say he is on cescs level in terms of that kind of impact

I would echo the overall sentiment that we don't have a genuine world class player. we had this discussion when we were comparing this side to the invincible. the synergy and cohesion has been the star of the show, but it goes to show you still want 3-4 cheat code players like cesc, haaland, salah, henry etc. to dig you out of the shit when the time comes

Qwiss

Sicario2 - Tier 1 world class players have bad spells.

World class is the level you are at. Nothing more. Saka is one of the best around in his position. He walks into almost every team in the world. He is World Class.

Qwiss

goon How many of our first XI start for their national sides?

Tomi, Zinchenko, Tierney, Xhaka, Partey, Odegaard, Saka, Turner, Kiwior, Trossard, Elneny. Don't see that it has much bearing TBH.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Qwiss

You simply can’t have bad spells when we are going for the title and you’re the talisman of the team. That’s being too easy on him.

Leao and Vinicius Jr are world class who are both a level above Saka.

QuincyAbeyie

RocktheCasbah I don't see how that was a strong reaction at all, unless you read it in a screaming voice.

However, one of the things I will reply to is certainly when people change their opinion but talk like it's been expected it all along.

Claudius

RocktheCasbah agreed with this. We are so conditioned to be pessimistic.

How many of Wenger’s 2010 teams would’ve finished ahead of this team?

We had 75 points the year Chelsea passed us. And 71 points the year Leicester won. We have 75 points with 5 rounds to spare

Big Willie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Leao and Vinicius Jr are world class who are both a level above Saka

Leap regularly goes missing in games. You probably haven't watched enough of him to think otherwise.

Qwiss

Sicario2 - Tier 1 leao needs to play in a big boy league before you can call him world class.

Vini is close to Saka.

RocktheCasbah

QuincyAbeyie it does feel like you are screaming at me sometimes, but maybe I'm reading things into your posts that aren't there. If that's the case, my apologies.

Anyway...

My opinion was, unless there was a plot twist, we were going to win the league. The plot twist happened when we drew two games from two goals up and then massively fucked the Southampton game.

The point of my initial post was that when you look at how good this City side are, Arsenal have done really well to be up there as long as we have been (and actually still are).

I guess it's called a reality check.

goon

QuincyAbeyie However, one of the things I will reply to is certainly when people change their opinion but talk like it's been expected it all along.

But why? Surely people can adjust their views with the benefit of hindsight and a renewed sense of perspective? New information leads to new conclusions.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Claudius

Mate Liverpool got 97 points and didn’t win the title. The bar and the league gets higher/stronger every year.

What happened 15 years ago points wise has little relevance to now.

I’m over losing the title but what will really sting is in 10/15 years time if we haven’t won it in that period knowing that this season was the one that got away. The ‘what if’ season. We got to live with this and all the abuse I’m sure we are getting from all our rival supporting mates.

RocktheCasbah

Sicario2 - Tier 1 I’m over losing the title but what will really sting is in 10/15 years time if we haven’t won it in that period knowing that this season was the one that got away. The ‘what if’ season. We got to live with this and all the abuse I’m sure we are getting from all our rival supporting mates.

Time will tell, of course. But this month has been such a slow motion car crash that I kind of made my peace with it after the Southampton game. Title winning teams don't do what we've done this month. Compared to losing the CL final in 2006, that felt much, much worse (tears in the Twelve Pins!) and I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that might be as close as we ever get in my lifetime. Oh well, that's football.

To your final point, again, I think it's a measure of how good we were up until this month that none of my mates - not even my Spurs ones - are taking the piss. I mean, what can anyone else say? We're going to lose the title to a club operating at a level we're aspiring to, but may never get to.

Meatwad

Claudius
two years of shitting the bed at the business end of the season, duh. no matter how well we play from august to march next season no one will be too concerned because goals aren't achieved in march.

Coombs

RocktheCasbah We're going to lose the title to a club operating at a level we're aspiring to, but may never get to.

And doing so by cheating, year after year.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

RocktheCasbah
Man I have my Spurs supporting mates calling us bottlers. You couldn’t make it up.

Regardless of title, I think if we beat Chelsea we will all feel a bit better.

Clrnc

RocktheCasbah Same. I was absolutely devastated after Soton. Almost couldn't sleep as I knew the title was gone because of that game (and also WHU). I can't get around how we lose a title by losing so many points to bottom teams while performing well against the better teams.

I will never be one to say we have done phenomenally well to be 2nd etc and us bottling the title is expected so we have to be happy with 2nd etc, but I have manage to condition myself to enjoy the ride after Soton. Not upset by yesterday result, a loss was very expected although the manner wasn't. Certainly not the way we went about playing the game.

I have zero expectations for the rest of the season. We will finish 2nd, lose some win some and it's just another season like 13-14, 15-16 miss chances that we will live to regret and mostly forget about the games nearing the end of the season. Like what Invisible said, fragments of moments that is mostly meaningless now.

RocktheCasbah

Coombs exactly.

QuincyAbeyie

goon If it's with a renewed sense of perspective and based on new information I wouldn't consider it talking like it's been expected all along.

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