Artetaball Tactics Thread: Page 2 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Artetaball Tactics Thread

Pepe LeFrits

Yeah, sample size and the nature of the game and opponent is obviously a huge factor. I thought the observation about Rice picking up the ball outside the block was interesting though. Will be keeping an eye out for that today to see how we shape up.

Burnwinter

Pepe LeFrits I thought the observation about Rice picking up the ball outside the block was interesting though

This was the bit that sounded most plausible, Rice might be doing it intuitively but more likely is under instruction not to take risks.

The point that players change structures and Havertz is distinct from Xhaka is well made, the claim about "connectivity" is a bit different, not sure Arteta would see it the same way.

It's educational being a gooner at the moment, there's a lot of cool, enlightening content of this kind due to Arsenal's hordes of online supporters, our nerdy manager and our challenger status. Makes the footy more fun.

Kel Varnsen

Biggest problem has been that we've not been able to set up Martinelli and Saka 1v1. The other teams have quickly doubled up on our wingers, which in turn results in horseshoe passing.

Big Willie

Kel Varnsen The other teams have quickly doubled up on our wingers, which in turn results in horseshoe passing.

Never liked the idea of bringing Partey to right back to play some inverted role whilst benching Gabriel just to fit Havertz into the team. It makes us lose a few of our stro gest partnerships from last season in the connection that Saka and White have down the wing that opens space for Saka to come inside, the partnership between Saliba and Gabriel which was one of the best in the whole league, and moves Partey from his best position which allowed him to break through the lines with a shoulder drop or pass that turned the opposition midfield back towards facing their own goal instead of being behind the ball.

Think if we keep playing this formation we'll end up with many more matches with the horseshoe of death. White needs to be at RB to support Saka, Partey needs to be at our midfield base, Gabriel needs to be back alongside Saliba. Let Trossard, Rice, and Havertz fight for that 8 position and see if Rice can win the position from Partey by the end of the season.

Burnwinter

Inverting Partey has got to stop.

Last season with the "Zinchenko role", Zinchenko and White didn't have to check on other players much to roam forward when we were on the ball, it was all quite organic.

With this Partey at right back schtick, Partey and White almost have to hold a meeting to make sure Partey is ambling inboard so it's safe for White to scout forward to the right in support of Saka. The shape transition is clumsy as hell. The decent aspect of it is that Rice gets to roam forward where he looked quite good in the first half, and Havertz becomes a free man. I like Havertz as a concept but he wasn't good enough today.

I counted White getting forward exactly once before the subs happened. And Partey is clearly under instruction to sit, but by the time he drifts into that right pivot area, the ball is already far ahead of him so his passing is worthless.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Big Willie

Good post and agree with all of this but I would definitely play Rice in the number 8, that’s his best position. Then you simply put Partey in the number 6 as you said. Problem solved.

James

Big Willie White needs to be at RB to support Saka, Partey needs to be at our midfield base, Gabriel needs to be back alongside Saliba

Think this would all be our preferred option at the back, but who plays left back whilst Zinchenko is unfit? We can’t just sit still and use this system forever though either. We have to evolve. Timber was a huge part of that.

Big Willie

Sicario2 - Tier 1 Good post and agree with all of this but I would definitely play Rice in the number 8, that’s his best position. Then you simply put Partey in the number 6 as you said. Problem solved.

Yeah that's my thinking. Not that it's his best position, but that it might be best to play him there for the time being whilst we integrate him into the team. Either that or have him and Partey rotate with one another and play Trossard in the 8 position whilst keeping the tried and tested backline.

James Think this would all be our preferred option at the back, but who plays left back whilst Zinchenko is unfit? We can’t just sit still and use this system forever though either. We have to evolve. Timber was a huge part of that.

Yeah I know what you're saying. Zinchenko is a huge miss when he's not playing. Even if Timber was fit. But the thing is, we were playing Partey at fullback even with Timber in the team so it seems like Arteta wants to go that route this season with White and Saliba at CB and Partey at RB. I don't like it but not much I can do about it.

Clrnc

James Kiwior.

Pepe LeFrits

James Think this would all be our preferred option at the back, but who plays left back whilst Zinchenko is unfit? We can’t just sit still and use this system forever though either. We have to evolve. Timber was a huge part of that.

Not mine. I'd rather Rice at 6 than Partey and I don't think Havertz really has much to do with Partey being played at RB. It could just as easily be Trossard at 8 and Arteta would still be playing Partey there.

I'd like to see last season's back four against United though.

James

Clrnc So we play with a back four in possession as opposed to the three we played the entirety of last season with?

James

Sorry yeah, I was disregarding Partey with my “at the back”.

Clrnc

James White can invert and bomb forward. No issues.

Pepe LeFrits

Yeah, I don't get this. Half the forum seems to want us to throw out everything we've been doing since the start of last season and play a double pivot in the name of continuity, or play Rice as an '8' (in our setup it's probably closer to a 10).

I thought Rice and Zinchenko together at the base of the box looked really promising. Would rather see more of that.

QuincyAbeyie

Pepe LeFrits those who want to play like last season with Rice in for Xhaka are the ones who "want to throw out everything we've been doing since the start of last season"..?

Pepe LeFrits

QuincyAbeyie those who want to play like last season with Rice in for Xhaka are the ones who "want to throw out everything we've been doing since the start of last season"..?

They'd be in the 'or play Rice as an '8' (in our setup it's probably closer to a 10).' grouping. Which I don't think will work well at all.

DiabyKungFu

QuincyAbeyie those who want to play like last season with Rice in for Xhaka are the ones who "want to throw out everything we've been doing since the start of last season"..?

Yes. We should not spend £100m on an elite defensive midfielder and then play him in attacking midfield.

Sicario2 - Tier 1

Pepe LeFrits

Think your underestimating Rice then.

If Xhaka can do that position than so can our number 41.

Pepe LeFrits

I'm sure in time he could adapt to become decent at it but I'm not sure why you'd want to bother.

Qwiss

Pepe LeFrits he did it last season after the World Cup for West Ham. They made a change from a double pivot to having Rice play beyond Soucek and Rices form shot up. He's very capable of it. I've thought his best moments for us so far are when he gets up the pitch more too. His passing around the box has pleasantly surprised me.

Big Willie

DiabyKungFu Yes. We should not spend £100m on an elite defensive midfielder and then play him in attacking midfield.

I agree, but we now have 2 elite DMs, so either play one or push Rice up into that 8 position, I'msure he could learn the role and end up upgrading on Xhaka.

However we shouldn't go and take an elite CB pairing, and elite RB and an elite DM who were very successful in each of their respective positions last season and somehow end up playing them in other positions or benching them completely.

This has been a complete overhaul and would have been better doing things in steps. For example Rice coming in for Partey whilst keeping the back line as is if Havertz has to play (I don't believe he's shown anything to warrant it either at Chelsea or his short time here).

If the Rice insertion works, then you could slowly integrate Havertz into the team. But to bring them both in and shuffling the rest of the pack in one go all of a sudden when the season is underway is too much. There's a reason why all our patters look off in that midfield/final 3rd area. As soon as White was back at RB you could see the link up between him and Saka out there. Guy is an amazing athlete and know exactly when and how to pick and choose his runs. Him missing from that RB spot costs us so much in both defence and attack. Not to mention is forces Saliba onto his weaker side and results in Gabriel missing out completely.

QuincyAbeyie

That doesn't have anything to do with my question.

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