Artetaball Tactics Thread: Page 21 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Artetaball Tactics Thread

Don Pacifico

RocktheCasbah that and the fact we've started playing AMs when Odegaard is out. 😇

Regardless, room to improve.

RocktheCasbah

Don Pacifico I don't think the issue with Merino is that he's not an attacking player, he doesn't score all these goals by accident. It's that he's not as smooth on the ball as Eze or Nwaneri and is clearly much more unlikely to beat a man off the dribble.

Like everyone else here, I'd rather see Eze, or Nwaneri in our midfield because they're fun footballers to watch, but I don't see Merino as an inherently conservative option.

Don Pacifico

RocktheCasbah it's weird one. It's not necessarily a conservative choice but on current evidence, it's a less effective one.

Qwiss

RocktheCasbah Merino is good on the end of moves, he's not good at creating them from midfield. Picking Merino isn't an inherently un-attacking choice but picking Rice, Merino and Zubi is as its just not creative enough. You might get away with it, especially if you have Saka and Eze wide but it is a more conservative midfield than one that features Eze or Nwaneri.

Tam

He's not inherently conservative in himself, but he's more conservative than Odegaard and the other alternatives. He's not a primarily defensive midfielder, but he doesn't have the attacking capability and nous you'd want in that specific position in our specific way of setting out a midfield. He's a big 6 foot 2 square peg trying to squeeze into a dainty 5 foot 9 round hole.

Pepe LeFrits

I think you'd probably want wildly creative and attacking fullbacks for a Merino, Rice, Zubi midfield to be ok. That trio plus CBs and two CBish fullbacks is just way too much stodge.

JazzG

When you consider we play the highest defensive line in the league makes it all the more impressive

tazmania

From Mustafi to this

IBL

tazmania and sideshow

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Don't forget our Greek philosopher.

Mirth

And Silvestre

flobaba

The Fulham game is the first time we are coming up against the disciplined mid block this season, and we see how much we still struggle to break it down. The counter to this is supposed to be direct and quicker ball transitions with us sending the ball through for Gyokeres or Saka early. Didn’t see it at all.

Bet more teams deploy this tactic as the season progresses. We will not be able to rely on Gabriel/set pieces all the time so the sooner Arteta figures it out the better.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

flobaba we did see a few direct long pass attempts at least early on in the game. Gyök needs to up his speed and fitness though.

Completely agree overall though.

CPM

flobaba Getting Havertz back will help facilitate the quicker out-balls. Gyökeres being useless in link-up play is really hindering our ability to do that.

Qwiss

flobaba I think the solution is to play Martinelli with Gyokeres. More pace in behind rather than Trossard joining the creative group with Saka and Eze. Also when Odegaard is back maybe we don't need Rice for every game where we face a mid block? Get 2 AMs on instead.

CPM Havertz vs midblocks was the problem we were trying to solve.

banduan I think it's part of the philosophy that football is inherently asymmetrical.

Definitely. You could see as soon as Eze started on the left he was out of the game. Look at Madueke on the left vs the right too, is it that he's just better on the right or is it that we played through him more on the right? I think that's still an open question.

tazmania

We had more goals in us against Fulham. Saka created enough to finish them off but we didn't. Teams can come and play that way and suffer one way or the other

banduan

Against Fulham we tried things in the middle despite them congesting that area around the box.

The ball they're trying to get is still that half space on their left inside the box with Saka and a few others going there.

We don't do the same on our left anywhere near as often. I don't think it's just because Saka is our best player. I think it's part of the philosophy that football is inherently asymmetrical. The same reason that our LB goes wandering but our RB has more set pattern, regardless of personnel.

Pepe LeFrits

Qwiss Havertz vs midblocks was the problem we were trying to solve.

Yeah I think Gyokeres has helped us vs midblocks, even if he hasn't scored as much as we'd like. I feel like we're dominating teams more than last season and I'd be curious to see our possession stats vs last year. Mid-blocks were our kryptonite and to be fair we struggled against Fulham's for a while (and iirc United's worked really well), but my feeling is that we're generally starting to suffocate teams more now, and Gyokeres is part of that as he makes defenders retreat.

Having said that I think Havertz would have played quite a lot of football for us by now had he been fit, there have been lots of cases where he'd have been useful.

Don Pacifico

Qwiss I think the solution is to play Martinelli with Gyokeres. More pace in behind rather than Trossard joining the creative group with Saka and Eze.

What I would say for Trossard is he's consistently looking to play the early ball through to the centre at the moment. The more we do that, the more we'll be able to transition quickly. Martinelli's passing isn't the same standard.

Qwiss We had chances and should have scored at least one more, think Gyokeres should have put one of his chances away TBH. Seems to be snatching at it, needs a couple of goals to calm him.

Agree he needs a confidence boost but I actually like the fact he took the shots early. Felt more decisive to me versus the last few matches where he's been put through and laboured the chances before getting snuffed out. Suspect he's being encouraged to do this by the coaches.

USArsenal

Qwiss Definitely. You could see as soon as Eze started on the left he was out of the game. Look at Madueke on the left vs the right too, is it that he's just better on the right or is it that we played through him more on the right? I think that's still an open question.

I think Madueke is better on the right if we are looking for him to beat his man and then get the cross/pull-back in.. He has no left peg. It we are looking for him to try to take on the defender, cut inside and take a shot (a la Martinelli on the left, or Saka on the left), the starting on the left would be best for him.

Once he's fit, i would like to see at least one game where we start Saka and Madueke (on either side, i dont care which) and we can see if they absolutely terrorize FB's.

Qwiss

Pepe LeFrits we've massively missed Havertz. Even if Gyokeres had banged in another couple of goals Havertz would have started some games and finished pretty much every other game.

I actually don't think Fulhams midblock worked that well. We had chances and should have scored at least one more, think Gyokeres should have put one of his chances away TBH. Seems to be snatching at it, needs a couple of goals to calm him.

Qwiss

Don Pacifico yeah Trossard is playing it early and especially in the first few minutes yesterday that was quite dangerous I just prefer an attacking 4 where there are 2 more creative players and 2 who are more forwards.

Panda

Don Pacifico Yeah I was happy with him taking the shots early too. The goalie spilt both of them, 1 of which nearly led to Martinelli scoring. The only 1 he rushed for me was the left footed blast over the bar as Saka would have had a tap in if he managed to stay calmer and square it.

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