Summer 23 winda: Page 24 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Summer 23 winda

MistaT

goon — more like Jorginho than Caceido, but I think a familiar comparable would be Arteta.

Qwiss

Seems like Arteta wants Rice for 8 and someone else for 6 if he's after Zubinedi or Caicedo.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Qwiss or Rice for 6, and Caicedo/Partey for RB 😉

Don Pacifico

Or maybe he just wants a couple of midfielders to improve the team and will figure out whether they're a 6, an 8, a 7 or a 42 after the fact...?

I'm being flippant, I just think we're getting hung up on specific positions as per the current set-up when the team and the way we play continues to evolve. Before we signed Jesus our main CF target was Vlahovic who is a different type of player (although there are some shared attributes). So I guess I think the main objective is just to raise the ceiling of our current midfield...?

JazzG

Gurgen Barca still sound desperate for him, Xavi & Busquets mentioning him by name recently. Sure I read he wants to stay another season as Sociedad have qualified for the CL. With £80m+ being branded about for Caicedo this guy for £50m would make a lot of sense.

goon He is more a pivot, has very good positioning and great at moving the ball from deep. Xavi is supposedly obsessed with getting this guy to replace Busquets.

lorddulaarsenal

Liking the links to Nico Williams

Can play across the front three, would allow us to rest Saka or Martinelli. and he’d give us searing pace up top.

HomeSteak

Looks decent, but 50 mil is a lot of money for him. Way more then he is worth

flobaba

That's just Benny Blanco money though.

Ricky1985

I'm extremely excited by the strong links to Declan Rice. It's a transfer that has felt right since it was first mooted in January.

I think he will replace Partey as the 6. The Rodri of our team. I think Arteta is looking for two things primarily from the guy in that lone pivot role:

A Metronomically reliable passing game - high volume and high success percentage, but coupled with high progression and key pass numbers - Rice can give us that. His West Ham numbers stack up extremely well, and in our phenomemally well-coached structure, I'm confident he will rival the very best in all those key metrics.
Defensive ability - tackles, possession wins, aerial duels, interceptions - Rice is up there with the best already, and a big step up from Partey. He's faster, more athletic, a better tackler, has better stamina, reads the game better, has better concentration, and is more aggressive. We'll be far less vulnerable on defensive transitions with Rice behind the ball than we were with Partey.

On top of that, I think Rice has an intelligence and understanding of the game that I think Partey lacks. He will make better decisions in his pass selection, he will pick his moments to move ahead of the ball better, take up better positions to shut down counter-attacks, and better organise the players around him. He'll take us up a level and I think he's the best player we can realistically sign this summer in terms of taking the team up another level.

Clrnc

Ricky1985 Interesting. I feel one of his biggest strengths is carrying the ball forward in transition and no surprise his stats in that area is literally the highest in the league for a b2b cm. You don't think hes better as an 8?

Qwiss

Ricky1985 A Metronomically reliable passing game - high volume and high success percentage, but coupled with high progression and key pass numbers - Rice can give us that. His West Ham numbers stack up extremely well, and in our phenomemally well-coached structure, I'm confident he will rival the very best in all those key metrics.

Ricky1985 On top of that, I think Rice has an intelligence and understanding of the game that I think Partey lacks. He will make better decisions in his pass selection

I completely disagree on both of these points. Rice has high pass percentage because he keeps it almost Elneny levels of simple and short most of the time. I don't think thats what Arteta wants at all. It is however much more similar to how Xhaka played in the deep role.

I also don't think Rice has a hope of making better decisions on pass selection from a deep role than Partey did for most of this season. Arteta loves to have the defenders and Partey draw people onto them and then play a telling pass. I don't think thats Rices game at all. Maybe long term he can do it but next season I don't see it.

For me Rices strengths are as you say ball winning, which again I think is more suited to box to box 8 role while the DM covers and keeps our shape. I also think he's got a great engine and more pace than Xhaka and I think he'll be asked to slot in and cover Zinchenkos area when needed like Xhaka did a lot this season. I think thats one of the main reasons Arteta wants player in the Rice mould rather than a Madison type. Rices pressing since he moved forward has been incredible too, its exactly the sort of thing Arteta loves.

I think we've probably known since last summer that Xhaka was going to go this year. His wife wanted to go back to Germany and it seems like Arteta just convinced him to hang on a little longer. I could be totally wrong but I think Rice has been scouted as the ideal Xhaka replacement. He does almost everything Xhaka does but with more speed, better ball carrying, etc Only areas he falls behind maybe are aerially, some passing and obviously experience.

But look who knows, its a fun debate for the summer anyway.

lorddulaarsenal

Good to see you posting again Tricks.

Agree with everything you said. Big boy club type of signing

Ricky1985

lorddulaarsenal

Cheers mate!

It would be a statement because I'm confident he's going to be one of the best around in his position for the next decade, and he's also one of the biggest characters and best leaders in English football. I think he'd walk into every other team around not named City, and even then Pep would probably find a role for him.

Ricky1985

Clrnc

It's a useful skill, but it's not really going to be game-changing in a possession dominant team like ours. We'll be aiming for 60% possession in pretty much every game we play next season. There will be occasions when he'll wreak havoc in attacking transitions - probably away from home and against the better sides that can give us a game - but that running power will be much more useful to us behind the ball stopping counter-attacks.

It's incredibly exciting to think just how good Rice can become as the linchpin of the team with Arteta working with him!

lorddulaarsenal

Ricky1985 Sat infront of Saliba and Gabriel - we’ll finally have that powerful base we’ve yearned for all these years.

I initially thought Partey would be a beast defensively but he’s actually quite free fragile and he’s more of an attack minded player

goon

It’s funny how no one actually knows where he will play, and everyone is convinced he can be great in either role.

I’d personally go with him as an 8, but I think he’ll play both roles regardless.

Pepe LeFrits

This video on Mac Allister has an interesting stat - turnover rate for PL players with more than 2000 touches last season:

Rodri, 9.4%
Fabinho, 11.7%
Caicedo, 12.6%
Hojberg, 13.2%
Partey, 14.5%
Rice, 14.5%
Mac Allister, 16.2%
Neves, 16.7%
Luiz, 18.2%
Guimaraes, 20.0%

Serious controlball potential with Caicedo and Rice.

Gazza M

Qwiss definitely agree with this. he doesn't rise above 'can do a job there' when it comes to the 6 position at a TOP club. I feel he's been a bit limited playing there for england and West ham. he's got an understated skill level, in that he looks awkward when he gets forward but he's pretty effective. I actually think there's more potential to unlock by freeing him up a bit more, and allowing him to break up play and drive forward as often as possible. in our system the 6 role doesn't really permit too much of that

in saying that, the midfield roles could evolve quickly once 1-2 class midfielders come in and bring different qualities to the table. our current approach is dictated by the strengths and weaknesses of guys like partey and xhaka. that approach could change if rice and caicedo come in

JazzG

Decent signing for Villa.

flobaba

Gazza M I also think Ricky is underrating two qualities Partey brings when he is on form: press resistance and forward passing/ability to get our wingers going early with a "picture changing" pass. Will be interested to see how a Rice/Caicedo combo executes in that regard. They will be superior defensively when it comes to ball recovery. It's how they impact our attack when we are building from deeper (our own defensive third) positions that I am curious and excited about.

lorddulaarsenal

Few links to Yeremy Pino popping up on Twitter

« Previous Page Next Page »