Declan Rice: Page 4 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Declan Rice

Clrnc

I also saw Rice as an 8 because his best qualities is bringing the ball upfield.

But for 100m surely we have to consider Bellingham instead or Caicedo who has far better qualities as an 8.

Gazza M

you're overlooking the defensive discipline xhaka provides in his role, and how important that is to our shape and pressing. Vieira isn't equipped to provide that, imo hes purely an odegaard understudy and emergency winger cover. and I don't think I'll ever see ESR as anything other than emergency cover in the middle 3 and competition for the wide positions. need a more robust option as the xhaka understudy/alternative

goon

Gazza M you're right and it's why Xhaka will play ahead of those two for now. But I think that's something that can be taught and I don't think you need defensive minded players to do it. City did it with Silva and KDB. Barcelona under KDB were the best I've ever seen at the counter press and you wouldn't really consider Iniesta and Xavi defensive minded players.

Arteta has mentioned both ESR and Vieira for that left sided AM roles a few times, but it would take a brave/foolish man to disrupt the balance now.

RowJimmy

I think that as we move forward and are playing in the CL next year we will need more tactical flexibility, so I'd like to have someone who can sub in for Partey in our current 443=325 but also play next to him in a 4231 or 4213. Someone like Rice may be that guy. (Although I'm always hesitant about recruiting established English players because of cost relative to quality.)

Burnwinter

When your three man midfield is Partey, Sunshine Xhaka and Ødegaard, it's tough to bring in a player that improves it without disturbing its balance. It's delicately poised.

However, our squad is far more brittle on the defensive end of the triplet. We need to lift our floor not raise our ceiling. The gap from Partey down is big, so big that it's expensive to equal looking up at the market from Xhaka's current level.

We should sign a top defensive-minded midfielder with all the gravy. That signing should join on the understanding he's earning a starting place at either 6 or 8, but might later permanently move to 6. What surprises me with this logic is: that sounds like Rice.

MistaT

I think Arteta is a little more pragmatic than many of us realize, and in turn he'll default to players (and a structure) that emphasizes defense over offense. As such, I think we'll continue to see a blend of a 6/8 (a la Xhaka) alongside an 8/10 (Odegaard). For me, that means someone like Rice is likely there though they (or Xhaka) could cover for Partey as needed.

While I love the idea of ESR replacing Xhaka, I think it exposes a wide range of defensive issues. Without Xhaka we'll be noticeably worse off on set pieces, lose cover for both Zinchenko and LW, and lose some defensive nous.

In my mind, if we're looking to find another ₅ goals per season we could better accomplish this by getting our mojo back on setpieces (the goals have dried up there), getting a few more PKs, and controlling a little more of the game.

Qwiss

Rice for £100m to play as an 8 would be insane. There are dozens of better, gettable players who'd cost half that.

Gazza M

I don't think he goes for 100m. no more than 80m tops imo.

rice isn't the ideal choice for me, I can just see why arteta would like the idea. ideally I'd like for us to get a high energy complete centre mid for that role, with a feel for build up play and a sprinkling of goal threat. doesn't have to be a defensive giant, just the engine and awareness to plug into either a traditional centre mid role or a more advanced role based on the requirements of the game. lampard/nainggolan/kroos/modric/goretzka are the model of player I'm thinking of

Clrnc

Anything about 50m is insane for him considering the amount of options available for that range of money.

He isn't a unique talent like Mudryk so not worth paying over the odds imo, especially paying english premiums.

banduan

Rice is better than Caicedo IMO. Should cost around 60 mil, but the market is daft and we'll see someone get him for 100.

Qwiss

Caicedo has much more potential though. Don't see Rice adding much more to his game, he's not going to become technically competent as he gets older.

banduan

Qwiss Caicedo has much more potential though. Don't see Rice adding much more to his game, he's not going to become technically competent as he gets older.

true but he can be more tactically competent.
While Caicedo does potentially have the higher ceiling, and is definitely a good player, Rice is just proven quality.

RocktheCasbah

Qwiss You might be right, but equally, it's worth remembering that at 24, Rice is only 4 months than Eddie Nketiah and is currently playing in a terrible West Ham team. Who's to say moving to Arsenal, with an elite coaching set up and much better players than Rice trains with at West Ham won't unlock greater skills? And technical competence is something I would think every footballer could improve on as they mature.

goon

Qwiss he's not going to become technically competent as he gets older

he's already very competent technically.

As @banduan said though in the right system there's plenty of levels for him to go up. Xhaka is a great example of this.

Qwiss

Xhaka always had the foundations of this. He just needed to sort his head out. Rices weaknesses are different. Even if Arteta could get the best out of him you're talking about £100m and a massive wage for a hyped up Scott Parker.

Pepe LeFrits

I don't think that describes Rice at all. He seems technically way above that to me.

For what it's worth, had a look on WHU forums and there's a lot of talk about how he's the biggest talent they've ever had; better than Lampard, Ince, Carrick, Ferdinand, Joe Cole and so on. Also a lot of talk about how playing him as a sitting DM at Chelsea would be a total waste of his talent.

goon

Yeah his core attributes are definitely being underestimated.

Gazza M

rices skill level is underrated. in the right conditions he will show more of what's in his locker, kind of like what's happened with jesus

Kel Varnsen

He is a very athletic midfielder. Strong, tall, and covers a lot of ground. Not sure what role he'd have here though.

Clrnc

Kel Varnsen Agreed. Scott Parker is an apt description, maybe slightly more intelligent. But I rate Parker more than some here anyway.

The old fashion English tenacious CMs are often highly valued in this league and useful as well.

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