General Football : Page 93 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

General Football

JazzG

What planet are these people living on? Ronaldo and Henry I give you but some of these names being thrown out as being better than Neymar? There are questions about Neymar's fitness and longevity but crazy disrespect being thrown at him.

Qwiss

JazzG somewhere in the middle. I'd take Salahs best season over Neymars. Application matters and Neymar for all his ability didn't really have the application to be totally dominant. He's way better than Mane though, that's a crazy comment from Jill Scott but then she's fucking useless.

TambourineMan

Neymar is one of the best players I have ever watched play football. The disrespect he gets is insane.

JazzG

Neymar also carried Brazil and in those games despite Brazil having poor players compared to historical standard he was always the player they looked to. Even more recently when they have had good players like Vini Jr, Raphina and Jesus those guys have looked nowhere near the level of Neymar.

Neymar just didn't have the drive for it, didn't really look after himself but he was the one player who could have reached unbelievable levels.

Qwiss

JazzG yeah none of those guys are close to as talented as Neymar. Brazilian attackers have fallen off. Since Neymar broke through the best Brazilians have been defensive players.

banduan

Neymar was a fun player who had a bucketload of tricks, and unlike Ronaldinho never got too carried away with them. Hazard isn't a shade on him.

Mirth

banduan I'd rate Ronaldinho's peak over Neymar's tbh

USArsenal

My opinion of Neymar is that he flattered to deceive. He was a bag of tricks, with some end product obviously, but he could never carry a team on his own. (though i disagree with banduan, i think he did often get carried away with his showboating). Teams he played for either won nothing (or not much) or he was part of teams that had 3 other superstars (i.e. Barca) that eased the burden for him. And i absolutely loathed his attitude. I, personally, would never put Neymar in the top echelon. For me, he's one tier below that. Great player, but never really fulfilled the promise fully.

Mirth

Neymar's in the top 3 most talented players I've seen over the past 15years. But there's about 10 players that have less talent but a better career including the likes of Lewandowski, Benzema, Suarez etc.

Moving to PSG was a disaster for him.

Claudius

Mirth Neymar's in the top 3 most talented players I've seen over the past 15years. But there's about 10 players that have less talent but a better career including the likes of Lewandowski, Benzema, Suarez etc.

Moving to PSG was a disaster for him.

Moving to PSG was normal for an unserious player like him. I wonder with both him and Dinho, were they both just so much better than everyone else that they never developed the application other top pros have.

Qwiss

Mirth its not even close.

Klaus

Ronaldinho was in a wholly different tier compared to Neymar. I've yet to see any player as good as he was at his peak.

Lukazan

Klaus Absolutely. Sad state of affairs that's he almost become somewhat of a forgotten man in football. Bloke was legit taking the piss between 2003-2005, every game he'd do something that would have you shaking your head and laughing in disbelief.

SimplyTheBest

Klaus Henry was as good as Ronaldinho during that time.

Klaus

Claudius Doing Ronaldinho dirty there, Claude. If he weren't a footballer and had a normal job he would have been given the same diagnosis that millions of blue and white collar workers get every year. He was suffering from a burnout. He talked about it many times but people couldn't understand how the best player on the planet could have an exhaustion disorder. If anything, being that good was what caused it. He was a private person who literally just wanted to play football. He had zero interest in watching it or talking about it, he just wanted to play. A force of nature who got pushed into being a celebrity.

Bryant

Claudius

I think with Neymar though, injuries blunted his career. There were a few periods where he was playing great and was arguably the best player in the world, but then he gets kicked and injured.

Claudius

Klaus if he was suffering from burnout, what fate awaits today’a footballers who are playing under insane conditions

Klaus

Claudius Today's footballers are a lot more coddled. We have an emotional support labrador for chrissakes. Back in Dinho's days no one talked about emotional and mental wellbeing in the sport. I remember the stigma that surrounded Sebastian Deisler and his depression. It took Robert Enke killing himself for the football world to really start discussing these things.

Ray

Neymar had good PR, and emerged at a time when Brazil didn’t have any good attacking players so they built the team around him.

Had he emerged when the likes of Ronaldo, Rivaldo etc were around he wouldn’t be an automatic starter, bit like Robinho

Claudius

Klaus I’m sure they have better care but they’re also playing in an era when there have never been more games and the physicality is significantly more than Dinho’s day. So it takes both a mental snd physical toll

Klaus

Claudius We also have bigger squads nowadays. Vieira averaged 55-60 starts per season for Arsenal and France back in the day which is why his knees were shot at the age of 29. You had five men on the bench back then and could bring on three. I don't think anyone in the current squad is close to that amount of football. Leaving that argument aside though, physical exhaustion and mental exhaustion are two very different things.

Claudius

Klaus fair but I think it’s worth noting how much intensity has increased and how much better relegation zone teams are than they were in 2005.

The mental toll I speak of here is more around having to make the decisions when the ball is moving more quickly, formations are constantly shifting throughout the game, much tougher set piece routines.

I was listening to Neville interviewing Walker who was explaining just how tough it was to adjust to playing under Pep, even little things like how you receive passes had to change.

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