General Football : Page 61 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

General Football

Don Pacifico

...or ultras will enjoy any excuse for a piss-up.

daredevil

I'm all for International club competitions. Nothing worse than the concentration of talent across a couple of leagues/teams.

Mirth

Guys, the trophy for the club World Cup has Infantino’s name engraved into it. Twice.

There’s a conversation to be had on a competition that unifies clubs across the world. This is not it.

daredevil

Mirth

The original World Cup was named after a FIFA President for almost 50 years.

Mirth

daredevil yeah, and that was not a good thing either

Coombs

There is more than a tinge of Eurocentrism in the critique of this tournament, even if the critique is fundamentally sound. The fact is, all corporate sport is deeply problematic, and quite far removed from the game played as part of youth education and general socialization. The World Cup, CL, Champions League, PL, it's all bad. You can say, here I draw the line, I'll not tolerate any more of this badness, but it is kind of arbitrary. Under the current conditions, is there any other way that we would be able to watch all these clubs and players from around the world genuinely compete against each other? European clubs reap the rewards of a global fanbase that gets to see their teams play a lot, almost too much. I don't think that experience is the same on the other continents. I know a load of people over here who a thrilled to go to these games, and are just as psyched to see their local MLS clubs play against European giants in competitive matches. I find it hard to knock them for it.

Yes, it's a cynical money grab, it's evil, it's bad - but also, that's just what it means to put football on TV.

awooga83

Coombs it's just really not an interesting competition. Can't speak for the rest of Europe but in England nobody cares from what I can tell, even my mates who are Chelsea fans are saying they didn't think they were going to bother watching it. Fair enough if you support a club and it's a bit more rare but if you support a European team your not short of competition in a season.

Dom

Coombs

Eurocentrism is at its worst when fans of clubs in the top European leagues moan about international football being meaningless.

I've watched Copa America games in South America and the atmosphere is incomparable to what you'd experience in England for example. The intensity of the players in those matches almost borders on self-harm. It means a lot to many footballers and millions of football fans who don't/can't watch European football regularly.

Mirth

Coombs

Should just have gone with the super league then. It had the benefit of added Eurocentrism and kept the colonies out too!

Look, the CWC is a good idea that's sold and packaged in the least thoughtful manner possible. Just like the Conference league, the Super League or the World Cup in Qatar. It's not particularly surprising because football is run by some of the least thoughtful people around and that is only accelerating over the past decade.

I don't buy that this is a function of the corporate sport either. I mean, yes - sure, it's a factor but there's several other sports that do far better when it comes to implementing technology and engaging with fans. It just so happens that football itself is so engaging that fans will be served shit on a stick and no one's going to ask how it can actually be good.

Besides, at the end of the day, the CWC is here to benefit the larger European clubs anyway (at the expense of smaller clubs in Europe, never mind everywhere else). You don't think Real Madrid cancelled their summer holidays and paid £10m for Trent out of sporting merit, do you?

Coombs

awooga83 I hear you, and I feel largely the same way. Just recognizing that the feeling might not be as universal as it seems for fans of the big European clubs.

Sicario2

Dom it’s not even eurocentrism it’s UKcentrism. Most ppl think the premier league is the be all and end all football.

I’m glad this tournament is getting some traction. There will always be shit group stage games but you get that in the World Cup and CL too. Every tournament no matter the standard or quality has whipping boys. No tournament will have 32 good teams from the get go. Wait till the CWC reached the KO rounds and then judge.

daredevil

Dom

I've found International and CL knockout football to be the most entertaining and satisfying football I've seen throughout my life time. It's way better than domestic football for me.

The CWC won't be entertaining enough because Europe has hoovered up all the talent, but there was a period around 60's and 70's when there was a far greater spread of talent across the globe )namely South Americans remaining in South America)- and the Intercontinental Cup was arguably the biggest prize in the game.

awooga83

Dom well I had written about the international football as well but deleted because I didn't want to be disparaging but it's true I'm privileged as a fan of a club that can be involved in the top competitions international football is a step down. I understand why supporters who don't follow those top clubs put so much into it because it's their chance to see some of that higher level. But I'm much more invested in the club then the England team for example. I'm sure many of England's following are passionate in a different way to fans in the premier League as well.

The comments about Eurocentric it's fair but it's because Europe already has competitions that allow for decent competitive games you don't really need these competitions. Domestic football started as a local community clubs and it's why I don't want the European super League future either it breaks that link and makes many of the fixtures more meaningless.

Mirth

Sicario2

Ah yes. I remember the world cup and CL knock outs where stadiums are empty: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8rpxjgr8mjo

Chelsea boss Enzo Maresca, said: "I think the environment was a bit strange, the stadium was almost empty, not full.

Coombs

Mirth I completely agree.

Sicario2

Mirth 1) this wasn’t a KO game and 2) who the hell is going to watch this match on a Monday at 3 PM in Atalanta. How many Chelsea and LOS ANGELS fans are in Atalanta on a work day you reckon?

Mirth

Sicario2 Number 2 is my point exactly. Literally attracted to a turd wrapped in tinfoil.

You've belaboured how non-European fans can finally enjoy top quality football locally only to find that the timings don't suit locals and by the time the KOs roll around, most of those teams will be knocked out. At least be intellectually honest with yourself.

Sicario2

This is fun though

TambourineMan

Sicario2 very cool but I have motion sickness so won't be able to enjoy this in anything other than bite size pieces. Which sucks because it's a really cool concept. You see the true pace of the game with this and get a better appreciation for just how good these guys are.

flobaba

Same here. Don't know if reading your post first put it in my head but I couldn't watch it for more than 5 secs, started to feel really dizzy/nauseated

Claudius

I live in South Africa and barely anyone is talking about this cup. Just a few weeks ago there was a big buzz as our best team competed in the finals of the Africa Champions League. Now nothing as the same team goes to the US. Their first game is against Korean team Ulsan tonight. That stadium will be empty for sure.

There is no reason to have this cup at this scale. The only reason we have it in this format is because of the fragmented ownership in football. The players generate the money and everyone from FA, to Premier League, to Football League, UEFA, and FIFA wants to get their pound of flesh.

Burnwinter

I get the Eurocentrism argument, but also this thing's existed for ages before its current incarnation with the extra billion dollars funnelled in appeared, along with the insistence fans are only not following it because of chauvinism. We were allowed to not give a shit unmolested before from memory.

I'd rather plead Arsenal-centrism in my own defence. There's enough football in the world I find it bloody hard to invest in a lop-sided tournament with a mediocre history that we're not involved in. I'll check those highlights of the highlights that go viral and be content.

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