Southampton vs Arsenal, Sunday, 2pm: Page 13 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Southampton vs Arsenal, Sunday, 2pm

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Lastly, I don’t think Tomi at LB is working even if it should in theory. He’s been surprisingly poor on the ball which makes me think while his left foot is very serviceable it’s by no means second nature to him.

Yep. He did a good job keeping Salah out of the Liverpool match but today and against Leeds he's looked way off. Doesn't look comfortable on that left side at all. I really hope Arteta switches back to Tierney, he was just finding some form when he was dropped and he offers way more going forward from the left than Tomi.

Claudius

Qwiss! wrote:
goon wrote:
Lastly, I don’t think Tomi at LB is working even if it should in theory. He’s been surprisingly poor on the ball which makes me think while his left foot is very serviceable it’s by no means second nature to him.

Yep. He did a good job keeping Salah out of the Liverpool match but today and against Leeds he's looked way off. Doesn't look comfortable on that left side at all. I really hope Arteta switches back to Tierney, he was just finding some form when he was dropped and he offers way more going forward from the left than Tomi.

Tierney is the better left back for connecting our attack especially.
If I had to hazard a guess, it might be that Arteta is easing Tierney into the season and picking the easier games for him to get full 90s in right to prove his fitness. Also important to keep him fit while Zinchenko is AWOL. But that’s a total guess. Tierney is so obviously better there, so trying to understand the logic.

Jed

Our players need to get better at the dark arts. Tierney should’ve gone down when Elyounoussi tackled him from behind before he overran it for the disallowed Ødegaard goal. White should’ve made a massive fuss when he was pushed in the box. Our players need to challenge these corrupt refs when they ignore obvious calls in our favour. Coerce them into giving us those calls like the other teams do. We’re still way too nice and naive. We need to be more street-wise because no referee in this country is going to be kind to us.

Pepe LeFrits

Jed wrote:
Our players need to get better at the dark arts. Tierney should’ve gone down when Elyounoussi tackled him from behind before he overran it for the disallowed Ødegaard goal. White should’ve made a massive fuss when he was pushed in the box. Our players need to challenge these corrupt refs when they ignore obvious calls in our favour. Coerce them into giving us those calls like the other teams do. We’re still way too nice and naive. We need to be more street-wise because no referee in this country is going to be kind to us.

Aye, watching Spurs Newcastle last night and Kane did not stop mouthing off in the ref's ear all game. Refs get put under such pressure, and look at how many penalties he gets as a result

Clrnc

We are missing the dark arts for sure. Jesus is normally good at it but the rest is awful at acting or simulating more obvious for a pen like Kane

Jed

Pepe LeFrits wrote:
Jed wrote:
Our players need to get better at the dark arts. Tierney should’ve gone down when Elyounoussi tackled him from behind before he overran it for the disallowed Ødegaard goal. White should’ve made a massive fuss when he was pushed in the box. Our players need to challenge these corrupt refs when they ignore obvious calls in our favour. Coerce them into giving us those calls like the other teams do. We’re still way too nice and naive. We need to be more street-wise because no referee in this country is going to be kind to us.

Aye, watching Spurs Newcastle last night and Kane did not stop mouthing off in the ref's ear all game. Refs get put under such pressure, and look at how many penalties he gets as a result

Also Fernandes for Man Utd. By contrast we have a muted Ødegaard who must be the most passive captain in the league. These little details matter over the course of a season.

QuincyAbeyie

Fuck no, I don't want more Bruno Fernandeses running around.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
Tierney is the better left back for connecting our attack especially.
If I had to hazard a guess, it might be that Arteta is easing Tierney into the season and picking the easier games for him to get full 90s in right to prove his fitness. Also important to keep him fit while Zinchenko is AWOL. But that’s a total guess. Tierney is so obviously better there, so trying to understand the logic.

I also think a part of it is trying to get Tomi up to speed, especially with a WC coming up. Last season he left Elneny out all year until it got close to the African Nations and then he played him loads in the build up. My guess is he feels a responsibility to these guys to get them up to speed if they are first teamers for their national teams. Which tbf is an important part of squad management. Players care about their national teams a lot, if they feel worried about losing their spot they'll head somewhere they can play more.

Claudius

Qwiss! wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Tierney is the better left back for connecting our attack especially.
If I had to hazard a guess, it might be that Arteta is easing Tierney into the season and picking the easier games for him to get full 90s in right to prove his fitness. Also important to keep him fit while Zinchenko is AWOL. But that’s a total guess. Tierney is so obviously better there, so trying to understand the logic.

I also think a part of it is trying to get Tomi up to speed, especially with a WC coming up. Last season he left Elneny out all year until it got close to the African Nations and then he played him loads in the build up. My guess is he feels a responsibility to these guys to get them up to speed if they are first teamers for their national teams. Which tbf is an important part of squad management. Players care about their national teams a lot, if they feel worried about losing their spot they'll head somewhere they can play more.

Makes sense, Qs. And also just get them up to speed in general. If we need to drop Tomi into the squad tomorrow at any position, it would be great if he is warmed up. Tomi's doing a great job here. Vieira an adequate job.
The total disappointment is Lokonga who talks a big game in the newspapers and then drops a floater against PSV.

KingslandBarge

Demon tormenting and disrupting prospects for peace on OMITT:
Shithouse club:

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
I also think a part of it is trying to get Tomi up to speed, especially with a WC coming up. Last season he left Elneny out all year until it got close to the African Nations and then he played him loads in the build up. My guess is he feels a responsibility to these guys to get them up to speed if they are first teamers for their national teams. Which tbf is an important part of squad management. Players care about their national teams a lot, if they feel worried about losing their spot they'll head somewhere they can play more.

Makes sense, Qs. And also just get them up to speed in general. If we need to drop Tomi into the squad tomorrow at any position, it would be great if he is warmed up. Tomi's doing a great job here. Vieira an adequate job.
The total disappointment is Lokonga who talks a big game in the newspapers and then drops a floater against PSV.

I actually think Lokonga has shown more this season than Vieira. Difference really is Lokonga has had a bit longer to adapt and Vieira is a little younger. I don't think this attempt to make Lokonga a 6 has any future though. Try him at 8 or move him on.

Claudius

Qwiss! wrote:
Claudius wrote:
Makes sense, Qs. And also just get them up to speed in general. If we need to drop Tomi into the squad tomorrow at any position, it would be great if he is warmed up. Tomi's doing a great job here. Vieira an adequate job.
The total disappointment is Lokonga who talks a big game in the newspapers and then drops a floater against PSV.

I actually think Lokonga has shown more this season than Vieira. Difference really is Lokonga has had a bit longer to adapt and Vieira is a little younger. I don't think this attempt to make Lokonga a 6 has any future though. Try him at 8 or move him on.

My main issue with Lokonga is around proactiveness. The most proactive Arsenal CM I’ve seen was Fabregas. I remember as a kid he would show for the ball with his palms open when Vieira and co were in possession. He made himself available, got on the ball and made things happen. Each of our current 3 starters has that quality, if not at that intensity. Lokonga lacks this. He doesn’t want to dictate the play. He’s an ancillary mid. This isn’t Spurs or Pool. If you’re in our midfield, you need to be a protagonist. Whether you’re a 6 or an 8.

Qwiss

I disagree with that entirely. Look at the Bodo game, he was the midfielder who had the most of the ball.

Don Pacifico

Yeah, I think there are a few misperceptions about his output and playing style. At the very least, I'd argue the comparison to Fabregas is unfair as he played a more 'visible' role in the team, whereas Sambi's role when in the team is rarely going to grab people's attention so good contribution goes somewhat unnoticed.

He's not the finished article by any stretch but there's definite potential there - he needs to be getting regular game time over an extended period to deliver on that though.

Qwiss

I think he could be the back up/roation for Xhaka rather than for Partey. I'd also like to see him with those 2 when we are trying to close out games.

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
I disagree with that entirely. Look at the Bodo game, he was the midfielder who had the most of the ball.

That doesn't mean he's proactive though, just means he gets on the ball a lot. He's got a lovely weighted clip out to the left hand side that you'll see a couple of times a game but beyond that we rarely tries to look for the progressive pass.

I think like Xhaka he'll be better higher up the pitch where keeping it simple is actually a virtue. He likes to drift and run with the ball, waiting for the right time to release it, that's the opposite of what a number 6 needs to do but is fine for an 8.

Qwiss

goon wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
I disagree with that entirely. Look at the Bodo game, he was the midfielder who had the most of the ball.

That doesn't mean he's proactive though, just means he gets on the ball a lot. He's got a lovely weighted clip out to the left hand side that you'll see a couple of times a game but beyond that we rarely tries to look for the progressive pass.

I think like Xhaka he'll be better higher up the pitch where keeping it simple is actually a virtue. He likes to drift and run with the ball, waiting for the right time to release it, that's the opposite of what a number 6 needs to do but is fine for an 8.

You don't get on the ball a lot if you don't show for the ball which was the claim. I also disagree he isn't pro-active though, he isn't a sideways pass merchant like Elneny, he usually looks to advance play and and often plays a telling pass. I think he's probably playing within himself at 6 to try and fit to Artetas system at times though.

Claudius

Agree with Goon here. The kid is clearly very talented. But go out, get the ball, move it around more, drive much more of the activity in the centre of the park, and accelerate the play the way Partey and Odegaard do. Think about how much faster the ball zipped once Partey and Odegaard came on last Thursday. And we scored almost immediately. That's what makes the difference. It's how Wenger's best teams have played. With zip.

I don't think these are things beyond him. You just have to see the quality of his long range passing to know that this is a technically capable player.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
I think he could be the back up/roation for Xhaka rather than for Partey. I'd also like to see him with those 2 when we are trying to close out games.

Agreed - IMO he's only covering Partey becasue Elneny is out. For mind he is/was our B2B in development not our future DLP/DM.

Anzac

https://gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2022/10/24/adjusting-to-shorter-games-how-arsenal-can-conquer-the-red-zone-sou-1-1-ars-positive-needs-hopes/

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