Arsenal - Fulham | Sat, 17:30 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal - Fulham | Sat, 17:30

goon

The title charge continues.

I'm supremely confident about this but Fulham have beaten Brentford as well as taking points off Liverpool and Wolves so no room for complacency.

I know the temptation is to not change anything while things are going well, but I'd be tempted to make a couple of changes for this because it's a good time to experiment, especially with Villa on Wednesday.

I'd go with this:

Ramsdale

Tomi - Saliba - Gabriel - Zinchenko

Odegaard - Partey - ESR

Saka - Jesus - Martinelli

White and Xhaka have done well so this is not a reflection on them and I'd be happy enough to put both back in against Villa. But I think this is a good opportunity to give others some mins and continuing to see how this team can evolve.

Ricky1985

Agree, this is where Arteta needs to go to the next level in his management and show he has the chops to correctly rotate the players now that he actually has a squad to work with.

FEBravo

Expect Leno to play a blinder

JazzG

Next week have three games in a week so need to either rotate at the start of make sure we bring fresh legs on in the 2nd half.

Fulham have started the season well and Mitrovic is proving a right handful, will be a real test for our defenders. Won't be easy so hopefully we start strong again.

RocktheCasbah

Ricky1985 wrote:
Agree, this is where Arteta needs to go to the next level in his management and show he has the chops to correctly rotate the players now that he actually has a squad to work with.

I think, depending on how the team look in training you probably want to keep it as is this Saturday and then look at rotating in midweek. I know they're shit, but United ALWAYS turn up against us at their place.

deardevil

If we're going to talk about dropping players based on recent form, then the first guy sitting is Bukayo Saka. Although, I appreciate we have potentially better alternatives to White and Xhaka than we do with Saka.

deardevil

Either way, I think it would be very unwise to change the starting XI for this game and introduce players with no pre-season who could very easily be off the pace. Let Smith Rowe and Tomiyasu continue to build up their fitness via substitute appearances and hand them starting slots when Europa League comes around. There's absolutely no need to change a winning team, and I bet Arteta won't either.

flobaba

deardevil wrote:
If we're going to talk about dropping players based on recent form, then the first guy sitting is Bukayo Saka. Although, I appreciate we have potentially better alternatives to White and Xhaka than we do with Saka.

Sure, but if he’s fit, you always have to give a player of his talent the time and space to figure it out. Especially if they’ve shown the sort of consistency and quality you need from them in the past.

Personally, I find it grating when folks criticize our young players from our academy who have significant talent and have contributed to bringing us to where we are today, just because we’ve added a few baubles here and there. For me, the youth are our foundation and our future, and are essential to our identity as a club. As fans, we have to stick with them and support them in their moments of difficulty like we did with Saliba. And I definitely don’t see the justification in advocating dropping them at the first sign of a downturn in form, when the team is flying high.

Patience.

flobaba

Also, most of these guys are not having to finish games these days because we are doing so well. The time to rotate for me will be when the cup games come around. Keep smashing these lesser teams and taking the players we can off early and we should be fine.

Ricky1985

flobaba wrote:
deardevil wrote:
If we're going to talk about dropping players based on recent form, then the first guy sitting is Bukayo Saka. Although, I appreciate we have potentially better alternatives to White and Xhaka than we do with Saka.

Sure, but if he’s fit, you always have to give a player of his talent the time and space to figure it out. Especially if they’ve shown the sort of consistency and quality you need from them in the past.

Personally, I find it grating when folks criticize our young players from our academy who have significant talent and have contributed to bringing us to where we are today, just because we’ve added a few baubles here and there. For me, the youth are our foundation and our future, and are essential to our identity as a club. As fans, we have to stick with them and support them in their moments of difficulty like we did with Saliba. And I definitely don’t see the justification in advocating dropping them at the first sign of a downturn in form, when the team is flying high.

Patience.

That's well said, Flo. Competition is an asbolute must, but when the talent is there, along with a genuine deep connection with the club, patience is wise.

RocktheCasbah

Bukayo was also our most effective player in terms of creating chances against Leicester last week. If that's gone under the radar a little, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

deardevil

flobaba wrote:
deardevil wrote:
If we're going to talk about dropping players based on recent form, then the first guy sitting is Bukayo Saka. Although, I appreciate we have potentially better alternatives to White and Xhaka than we do with Saka.

Sure, but if he’s fit, you always have to give a player of his talent the time and space to figure it out. Especially if they’ve shown the sort of consistency and quality you need from them in the past.

Personally, I find it grating when folks criticize our young players from our academy who have significant talent and have contributed to bringing us to where we are today, just because we’ve added a few baubles here and there. For me, the youth are our foundation and our future, and are essential to our identity as a club. As fans, we have to stick with them and support them in their moments of difficulty like we did with Saliba. And I definitely don’t see the justification in advocating dropping them at the first sign of a downturn in form, when the team is flying high.

Patience.

It wasn't a criticism of Saka. As I said in the follow up post, I would leave the team unchanged. But if you're going to argue that competition should be based on form then you should be consistent across the board.

flobaba

We are three games into a new season.

I don't know what sort of form you would be looking at when making your evaluation.

Plus, you know what they say: Xhaka is temporary, Saka is permanent.

Tactics

I don't think we should contemplate making changes to the team so early in the season. Our players should be relatively fresh coming into this season. We had no european football last season, were out of the cups quite early and they had the whole summer off. Besides, they should get used to playing 3 games a week if we want to be a serious club again.

I'd start with the same team, try to wrap the game up as soon as possible and then make changes early in the 2nd half.

goon

I think we need to start thinking differently about changes. Less emphasis on who’s in form and even fitness and more emphasis in small bit healthy rotation and competition. Especially in positions where there isn’t necessarily a drop off in quality.

It’s the best way to become more resilient to injuries and poor form. It’s also a good way to potentially keep ‘Cup teams’ stronger.

TambourineMan

Don't think we need to be making changes for changes sake. It's early days and the squad is fit and firing. Happy to play the same XI (injuries permitting) right up to Europa commencing when I hope Arteta starts using his squad a little better than he's done in the past.

Each of the following players are more than capable of making meaningful contributions to the first XI (so there is not reason to not get them involved):

Tierney
Tomiyasu
ESR
Vieira (you'd hope at least after the money we spent on him)
Nketiah

If we add Neto and Tielemans to that, we'll have the best squad depth we've had for a long while. Guys like Holding, Lokonga and Elneny are not completely useless either so there is quality in this team and Arteta needs to trust his players so as to not run the Saka's and Jesus's of this world into the ground.

Burnwinter

goon wrote:
I'd go with this:

Ramsdale

Tomi - Saliba - Gabriel - Zinchenko

Odegaard - Partey - ESR

Saka - Jesus - Martinelli

Ramsdale

White - Saliba - Gabriel - Tierney

Odegaard - Partey - Zinchenko

Saka - Jesus - Martinelli

I'd be interested to see that. Zinchenko looks to have the tools and intelligence to play Xhaka's role and also enable Tierney to gallop forward at times. His versatility gives us terrific options as to how we might build the play.

Definitely wouldn't be starting Tomiyasu this week, but I'd like to see him get some solid half hour appearances over the coming weeks. His body needs to be treated very gently so we can get some real mileage out of him later this season.

lorddulaarsenal

Wonder if we’ll see that mad preseason press deployed at any stage this campaign?

Claudius

Ricky1985 wrote:
Agree, this is where Arteta needs to go to the next level in his management and show he has the chops to correctly rotate the players now that he actually has a squad to work with.

Hi Ricky
I am not actually worried about Arteta learning to rotate his team. I thought the concerns around this were overblown in previous years. Arteta has a very clear vision and perspective on which players can bring that vision to life. Two things. First, he has added more starters without losing anyone of importance - Saliba, Jesus and Zinchenko. Plus Vieira. So rotation options increase.
Second, our ability to close out games earlier will open more opportunities for relief subs. We currently have the best xG/xGA stats along with City in the league, so this should also support more relief subs.

Claudius

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Wonder if we’ll see that mad preseason press deployed at any stage this campaign?

We already have the best pressing stats - so probably do not need to go over the top consistently. Interesting that City and Liverpool are around bottom 6 in this regard through the first 3 games.