Arsenal vs Sunderland (H) | Tuesday Dec 21 7:45PM BST | EFL | Tostada: Page 11 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal vs Sunderland (H) | Tuesday Dec 21 7:45PM BST | EFL | Tostada

Qwiss

Fuck off Benge thats not a stat I need.

Anyway was mainly going to say I think people are being really harsh of Balogun. He's had fuck all football lately at this level and was played out of position. Guy needed this season on loan, hopefully he'll at least get half a season somwhere they he plays.

KingslandBarge

Agree with this, and think most are being considerate of that. He also may have been trying too hard. Sometime after the first 20-23, he started to fall back to what I suspect is his comfort move; the right foot curler from the edge of the box. Even when it wasn't on. Put in a good shift though.

Coombs

Burnwinter wrote:
I'll accept there haven't been that many occasions like that, but it looks like a real problem after the last month.

That it's a problem when players play well doesn't really track for me. They haven't had many of these kinds of games, as you say, and when the opportunity came they were given a chance and they delivered. That's to everyone's credit and simply doesn't represent a problem to me.

QuincyAbeyie

Surely Leeds and Southampton were occasions where Pepe should've gotten minutes when we were up by three.

Coombs

I'd say they are certainly occasions where he could've gotten minutes. Dunno why we have to find the negatives in good wins, though. If he can't get in the team and the team is winning, oh well.

QuincyAbeyie

But when we're not winning it's not "these kinds of games" where those players should get opportunities. If it's also "oh well we're winning" in the games where we are winning and he could've gotten the chance, then when is it appropriate to care about who plays?

Burnwinter

Eh. When there's no rotation you're heaping a lot of pressure on players when they are eventually called upon in something other than the League Cup. You're also undermining motivation.

It's a pleasant surprise that Martinelli is turning it on with little exposure this season, but we're about to have a tight run of fixtures. If Auba had been knocking them in we'd probably still have barely seen Martinelli.

So that's one negative. Another is that if we're really going to force a player like Pépé out, we might miss out on £10m or £15m because no one can tell the guy's level anymore.

And a third is that if we're serious about becoming a force in this league and Europe again we need to get used to rotation.

By "these kinds of games" I'm talking about Newcastle, Southampton, Leeds where we've enjoyed a degree of control and been up a couple of goals or more after an hour.

goon

We should be using Pepe a lot more, if nothing else to give Saka a breather. I like Tavares but I don't really get the concept of bringing him on as a winger when you have Pepe on the bench, especially in games like Southampton, Leeds and West Ham where you have a decent lead. He'd have a field day.

Burnwinter

We're playing Saka like he's indestructible and fatigue doesn't exist at the moment.

Gazza M

Coombs wrote:
I'd say they are certainly occasions where he could've gotten minutes. Dunno why we have to find the negatives in good wins, though. If he can't get in the team and the team is winning, oh well.

I'm pretty much of the same opinion. he's shown with his display that he's still hungry though, and we should rotate over the hectic Xmas period

flobaba

Burnwinter wrote:
We're playing Saka like he's indestructible and fatigue doesn't exist at the moment.

At that age the body recovers quickly enough to play a game or two every week with no problems.

If he picks up a knock and is forced to “play through it” too often, that might cause me to worry.

I think (hope) we’ll be smart enough with his load management when it starts getting really busy.

Coombs

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
But when we're not winning it's not "these kinds of games" where those players should get opportunities. If it's also "oh well we're winning" in the games where we are winning and he could've gotten the chance, then when is it appropriate to care about who plays?

"Rotating" the squad does not take precedence over playing the best team possible, for me. Listen to the club doctors and rest a guy who needs it, but don't rotate just for the sake of it. That's not really a competitive environment. If in certain games you give players a chance to make an impact, and they take that chance, then you've managed them well, not poorly.

I would certainly substitute a bit differently than Arteta has. Especially with Pepe. But I'm not going to lose sleep over it, especially if we won.

QuincyAbeyie

Rotating at 3-0 etc isn't to let rotating take precedence over winning, that's the long and short of it for me.

Big Willie

OMITT has become addicted to air quotes these days. We need to "control" ourselves a bit more guys.

goon

Big Willie

😆

It's true though.

Burnwinter

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Rotating at 3-0 etc isn't to let rotating take precedence over winning, that's the long and short of it for me.

This is it, it's not like I'm saying he needs to change a winning line-up or even take any risk with subs, just it'd be nice to see a bit of comfort on the pitch translate into opportunities and motivation for the second stringers.

Coombs

Burnwinter wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Rotating at 3-0 etc isn't to let rotating take precedence over winning, that's the long and short of it for me.

This is it, it's not like I'm saying he needs to change a winning line-up or even take any risk with subs, just it'd be nice to see a bit of comfort on the pitch translate into opportunities and motivation for the second stringers.

It does, just not for Pepe. Like I said, I'd do it differently, but if we were losing 1-0 and no attackers came on then I'd be much more frustrated.

Anzac

Alternatively if he can't follow or grasp the tactics then he shouldn't be playing as he'd becoe a liability that could lead to the system imploding, which is why I don't particularly like positional play as it's all or nothing with little to no margins for error.

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