Lokonga: Page 7 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Lokonga

Ricky1985

This debate won't be settled until we see what Ben White does for us this season and in the seasons ahead. That's when we can judge. If he's as good as I think he is then you'll look back and think 'why did I care what was paid for him?', if he's not at that level then it will certainly have been a mistake to have paid out so much money for him, or when we're in desperate need of quality, to have even signed him at all.

Meatwad

Big Willie wrote:
I'm happy enough with the Lokonga signing. Looks a player in the making. But for sub 20m I can judge him as a project.

With White, for me it's a completely different story. I can accept that whilst the guy is a good player, he is also a work in progress. Only reason I can't judge him as such is the fact that we spent so much on him when we already had works in progress like Saliba and when we had more pressing needs elsewhere in the squad.

For us to spend such a large amount on a position that was not one of our weakest areas, I feel it should only happen if it was a genuine ready made top class signing that popped up on the radar when needed or a luxury signing to add to an almost complete squad. White is not the former category and Arsenal are not in the latter.

exactly. if we want to spend 18m or whatever on the Lokongas i'm all for being patient and putting up with youthful play (for a year), but when you spend 50m, i want to see immediate impact. there are no two ways about it. if projects are going to cost us 50m then we're doing it all wrong. actually we spent 70m on an attacking project and now 50m on a defensive one. the more i think about it, shit this is shocking.

Coombs

White is far ahead of Saliba in development. Not really comparable situations.

Big Willie

Don't think that's true at all.

Meatwad

Coombs wrote:
White is far ahead of Saliba in development. Not really comparable situations.

fiction. the only thing you're basing this on is arteta's shitty opinions. not a good look at all.

Gazza M

he is though. multiple successful loans, a full epl season under his belt. you can argue the price tag and whether we should have bought him, but he is closer to the finished article than saliba, come on

jones

Much of a muchness. White has played a lot more football but most have come in the lower leagues, Saliba has played a lot more top flight matches. He should be closer to being ready but not "far ahead" for me.

Coombs

He's far ahead, even if only by the nature of time alone. It's not an argument to be had, just a plain fact.

lorddulaarsenal

Yep agreed. He also has experience at full international level.

Experience aside he’s a better player than Saliba too

Clrnc

jones wrote:
Much of a muchness. White has played a lot more football but most have come in the lower leagues, Saliba has played a lot more top flight matches. He should be closer to being ready but not "far ahead" for me.

Yeah far ahead is too much of an exaggeration

QuincyAbeyie

If what we saw against Brentford continues it's not a positive for White that he's closer to the finished article.

Ray

It’s funny how when it comes to Saliba everyone is suddenly so eager for him to go on loan and develop because of his inexperience, yet when Gabriel came in last season no one had those concerns for him who was in a similar development position as Saliba is now.

Maybe Gabriel should go out on loan and we should make Mari a starter because he’s “far ahead”.

jones

Agreed, if inexperience or time was the only relevant factor here we should never have spent 30m on Saliba in the first place. We did it because he looked mature beyond his years at ASSE and did so again for Nice and is now a starter again for Marseille.

For what it's worth I think neither should be judged as long as we don't have a proper coach have had a look at them because let's face it, there's no way White will look worth even half his fee this season.

Qwiss

jones wrote:
For what it's worth I think neither should be judged as long as we don't have a proper coach have had a look at them because let's face it, there's no way White will look worth even half his fee this season.

Agree there. Almost everyone looked like shit on Friday. White needs time and patience and a decent team around him. Paying £50m for someone doesn't make them the ready made article and it certainly doesn't mean they are going to magically fix a broken side.

Ray

For 50m we could have some experienced and ready made quality like Skriniar. I'm not expecting a novice like White for 50m.

Ricky1985

Qwiss! wrote:
jones wrote:
For what it's worth I think neither should be judged as long as we don't have a proper coach have had a look at them because let's face it, there's no way White will look worth even half his fee this season.

Agree there. Almost everyone looked like shit on Friday. White needs time and patience and a decent team around him. Paying £50m for someone doesn't make them the ready made article and it certainly doesn't mean they are going to magically fix a broken side.

Is there a fan dumb enough anywhere to think the signing of one defender, even if he was the best defender around, is going to magically fix this side? I very much doubt it.

It's obvious he has things to learn - he's 23 and still only has one season of top flight football to his name. But you pay for talent, that is where all the money in football goes and has done for a long time now.

jones

We paid 50m for Partey a year ago. He's been mostly injured but most of us were hoping that we'd get someone of his calibre when we spent as much again, not a project in a team that can't afford to carry a passenger in it.

Clrnc

Ray wrote:
It’s funny how when it comes to Saliba everyone is suddenly so eager for him to go on loan and develop because of his inexperience, yet when Gabriel came in last season no one had those concerns for him who was in a similar development position as Saliba is now.

Maybe Gabriel should go out on loan and we should make Mari a starter because he’s “far ahead”.

Hahaha I mentioned it previously. Gabriel is similarly inexperienced and wasn't match fit but no excuses were made for him when he was MOTM in his first few games. It's hilarious.

There were people who insist Saliba wasn't match fit because he hasn't played since France went to lockdown, but Gabriel in the same situation who came in 2 weeks before and was in quarantined the entire time, trained 1 session and was thrown into the deep end while Saliba wasn't even on the bench. Hilarious

goon

I'm not one of those who's mentioned Saliba's lack of experience, I'd have been happy for him to start the season for us (it's not like we're going for a title challenge). But Gabriel is 3 years older and has near double the amount of games under his belt, and even then his season went to shit for a large part of the middle section precisely because he looked like he didn't know how to cope with the pressure, so I'm not sure that's the best example.

jones

Double amount of games doesn't mean all that much at this point in their careers. He's played one season in the Brazilian second tier and another season worth of matches at Lille, wasted a year in Croatia in between too for good measure.

I don't buy this idea of struggling with "how to cope with pressure". If anything that'd be the first thing that shows when you switch countries and leagues, on the contrary how do you go from MOTM awards to looking like shit after a while? I'd say his level dropped because a) fatigue and b) whatever coaching and training with team mates he was receiving at Arsenal clearly did more damage than it helped. You wondered about the same thing recently regarding Martinelli, training is by far the most important factor with any player looking good or not on match days.

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