Ben White: Page 3 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

Ben White

goon

It's not really comparable is it? Foyth is 23, Xhaka is 29 and Tottenham paid a similar amount for him in the first place.

Arsenal fans are weird, spend all year moaning about how awful our players are then want 40m for everyone because Liverpool got 23m for Brewster.

Claudius

goon wrote:
It's not really comparable is it? Foyth is 23, Xhaka is 29 and Tottenham paid a similar amount for him in the first place.

Arsenal fans are weird, spend all year moaning about how awful our players are then want 40m for everyone because Liverpool got 23m for Brewster.

Curious, innit.

Claudius

Anzac wrote:
Rohit wrote:
I am fine with us selling Holding by the way if we are investing in someone better.

This is not having a go at anyone and certainly not yourself, I just want to pick up on this.

IMO it's not so much about getting someone 'better' as opposed to someone being more suited.
IMO this is where AW got the recruitment 'wrong' as he was always talking about no one being available to 'improve the quality of the team', rather than actually being 'fit for purpose'.
As such IMO you can lose quality (individual or team) regarding technical ability, but actually gain in terms of performance and capability by becoming 'fit for purpose'.

Using Holding as an example he is a decent defender, but IMO is not suited to playing in a high defensive line even as a sub/cover, whereas someone else may not be as solid a defender in terms of heading or tackling, but may be a better fit in terms of playing in a high line, and may have better positioning and passing = horses for courses.
I think we are guilty of forgetting this in regards to this rebuild. IMO at this point in terms of this season functionality & capability are more important in terms of performance than individual quality - the whole being better than the sum of it's parts. If we regain top4/UCL then this time next summer is where we look to improve our quality and depth.
That said if there is an opportunity to sign players who are both quality and fit for purpose we should do so , which brings me back to beating my drum about the opportunity to set us up for 3-5 years IF we have the appetite to take advantage of this depressed COVID market. We are not going to get value for money in terms of player sales, however we can offset that by getting value in transfers in to build a strong and capable match day squad with players of genuine quality.

Really good points Anzac. Which is why there might be some benefit to leading Edu and Arteta for a while. Let’s let one group of people build something coherent. If anything help Edu out with a senior DoF but let’s stabilise the ship and build a coherent team as you’ve described.

jones

goon wrote:
It's not really comparable is it? Foyth is 23, Xhaka is 29 and Tottenham paid a similar amount for him in the first place.

Arsenal fans are weird, spend all year moaning about how awful our players are then want 40m for everyone because Liverpool got 23m for Brewster.

I don't think our players are awful, they're made to look awful by our awful manager and when it comes to selling we don't get their worth because of our awful transfer team.

QuincyAbeyie

If Goon thinks the Arteta-outers believe our players are awful he's completely missed the point of why we want him out. 😆

Gazza M

LTArsenal: Since 2013, Arsenal made over 30 FIRST TEAM signings (excluding free agents) and are yet to make a profit on the sale of a single one of them. The last 2 players Arsenal signed for money and made a profit on was Giroud (signed 2012) and Chamberlain (signed 2011)

buy high, sell low. since the signing of ozil our asset management has been appalling, and shows no sign of abating

Clrnc

Goon just made it even more sad. They paid 8m, the guy flopped completely in England and got sold 13m plus future add-ons.

Anyway not news anymore that we are very bad sellers. Like I said at least we got rid of him albeit at a big loss but as long as Kroenke can write it off who cares

goon

On the other hand he's an Argentine international and a regular for Villarreal this year so it's not really that surprising.

My bad on Xhaka though, didn't realise all the thousands of negative posts on this forum towards him were sarcasm.

Qwiss

Xhaka is old, problematic and without much contract left. Its not great business but we have done worse. Its better than keeping him thats for sure.

If you are looking at Foyth compare it to whatever we do with Douzi who is way better than Foyth, younger and with much more upside.

Gunner89

The reason Liverpool extract the best price is they know WHEN to sell rather than the quality of the player.

Liverpool sell Ibe, Solanke, Brewster at the right time.

We brought Campbell back after he won the league in Greece and scored against united. Then he was put on the bench for some calling cup cameos and sold for peanuts.

If wenger had been here iwobi would be moving on a free probably by next year. Instead for a change we got rid off a player who barely makes the everton 11.

It's the same with Willock and AMN now. Either they fit the system and play or sell them when their stock is high. AMN is an easy decision to make since he reportedly only wants to play CM.

I like Willock but if we can get a player more suited to our system then sell.

Claudius

Gunner89 wrote:
The reason Liverpool extract the best price is they know WHEN to sell rather than the quality of the player.

Liverpool sell Ibe, Solanke, Brewster at the right time.

We brought Campbell back after he won the league in Greece and scored against united. Then he was put on the bench for some calling cup cameos and sold for peanuts.

If wenger had been here iwobi would be moving on a free probably by next year. Instead for a change we got rid off a player who barely makes the everton 11.

It's the same with Willock and AMN now. Either they fit the system and play or sell them when their stock is high. AMN is an easy decision to make since he reportedly only wants to play CM.

I like Willock but if we can get a player more suited to our system then sell.

Similar could be said of Nketiah. West Ham we’re interested and needed a replacement after Haller. We went conservative and kept him probably because we were unsure about Lacazette’s form and Martinelli’s health

Rohit

It's also where we are able to generate interest. A sale in England and there is a chance we will get value - Chamberlain, Iwobi, the reported interest for Willock. It's unlikely someone like Xhaka will interest an English side. There is little money on the continent outside of the absolute top sides for these acquisitions. We should have done better with Guendouzi though. The conditions created by both sides however meant we had no leverage.

Qwiss

Gunner89 wrote:
I like Willock but if we can get a player more suited to our system then sell.

I'd rather get a manager with a system more suited to Willock than lose him for a player who's more suited to Arteta-ball.

Claudius

If we can take advantage of the English player price arbitrage that Rohit described, then there is a case for selling Willock. But we need to come out of the ‘trade’ with a great parent for Partey

mentalvortex

jones wrote:
goon wrote:
It's not really comparable is it? Foyth is 23, Xhaka is 29 and Tottenham paid a similar amount for him in the first place.

Arsenal fans are weird, spend all year moaning about how awful our players are then want 40m for everyone because Liverpool got 23m for Brewster.

I don't think our players are awful, they're made to look awful by our awful manager and when it comes to selling we don't get their worth because of our awful transfer team.

The bigger problem I have with the transfer fee we are negotiating for Xhaka is that Liverpool will get more for someone like Marco Grujic who has barely done anything in last few years.

Claudius

Liverpool’s best sales are local. We need to stop being so precious about our academy kids and sell the ones who are not incredible like ESR / Saka at maximum price when they make a little noise. A smart club markets Willock and dumps him now and turns that money into a Locatelli. We can all agree we need a player like a Locatelli in the starting line-up. You will not get similar alignment around a player like Willock in the starting line-up. We need to be brave.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
Gunner89 wrote:
The reason Liverpool extract the best price is they know WHEN to sell rather than the quality of the player.

Liverpool sell Ibe, Solanke, Brewster at the right time.

We brought Campbell back after he won the league in Greece and scored against united. Then he was put on the bench for some calling cup cameos and sold for peanuts.

If wenger had been here iwobi would be moving on a free probably by next year. Instead for a change we got rid off a player who barely makes the everton 11.

It's the same with Willock and AMN now. Either they fit the system and play or sell them when their stock is high. AMN is an easy decision to make since he reportedly only wants to play CM.

I like Willock but if we can get a player more suited to our system then sell.

Similar could be said of Nketiah. West Ham we’re interested and needed a replacement after Haller. We went conservative and kept him probably because we were unsure about Lacazette’s form and Martinelli’s health

We could use Nketiah as part of a player + cash deal with BHA for White.

Anzac

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-ben-whites-2020-21-stats-to-arsenals-current-centre-backs/#new_tab

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/322036/Show/Ben-White

mdgoonah41

Qwiss! wrote:
Gunner89 wrote:
I like Willock but if we can get a player more suited to our system then sell.

I'd rather get a manager with a system more suited to Willock than lose him for a player who's more suited to Arteta-ball.

agree wholeheartedly with this. it feels like arteta is hanging by a thread. selling someone like saliba or even willock, who may be ready to explode, just because the current manager doesnt like them seems like a really bad decision. maybe find a better manager who can maximize the talent we have.

Qwiss

mdgoonah41 wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
I'd rather get a manager with a system more suited to Willock than lose him for a player who's more suited to Arteta-ball.

agree wholeheartedly with this. it feels like arteta is hanging by a thread. selling someone like saliba or even willock, who may be ready to explode, just because the current manager doesnt like them seems like a really bad decision. maybe find a better manager who can maximize the talent we have.

Thats my big worry at the moment. We are trying to shape a squad to fit a manager who could be gone in 6 months.

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