European Super League: Page 6 - The Arsenal discussion community: One More in the Tolly

European Super League

jones

Every sport gets commercialised it's part of living in capitalist societies. Still there's a massive difference between what we're currently being served and what is now on the horizon. That'll be the end of me watching Arsenal there and then.

Fucking yanks. Only people on earth even more certain than Germans to ruin everything for everyone

Qwiss

@lorddulaarsenal wrote:
Hopefully we’ll see players run out to the pitch individually with entrance music like WWE Superstars have. I’d also like to see them cut promos with their agents taking the role of Bobby Herman, Brother Love, Jimmy Hart and Paul Bearer

Give Vinnie Mac a real run for his money

Jens

jones wrote:
Every sport gets commercialised it's part of living in capitalist societies. Still there's a massive difference between what we're currently being served and what is now on the horizon. That'll be the end of me watching Arsenal there and then.

I agree.

Gazza M

y va marquer wrote:

What do we want?

Irresponsible levels of untamed capitalism in football!

How much do we want?

Just a little bit less than the amount that makes a European Super League a reality!

For anyone who was in any doubt, or was unaware that, for the last decade and a half, football at the highest level has been about nothing but maximising profits and the profiles of owners, this ESL bullshit must be a punch in the face.
I have fallen out of interest with "top flight" football for a few years now, it leaves me cold, I don't even miss it.
I recommend finding a sport / football team that's played competitively at a local level, going to games (when we can again), you will end up getting as much or more out of it than watching glitzy ad ridden coverage with a side of panto level punditry 3 times a week.

I've taken up watching pro arm wrestling. found it more compelling than any elite football I've watched in the last 10 years

lorddulaarsenal

Best not tell you about the rife doping in arm wrestling then Gaz

lorddulaarsenal

Hopefully we’ll get mid half breaks in ESL

“And now a word from our sponsors...”

You’ll have the traditionalist saying it’s a game of four quarters.

Wilson

Fuck it. Lets introduce paid voting on penalties. Have fans vote for their GK/pen taker on which way to go and have it delivered to each before the kick. Package it as interactive fan participation.

Mirth

jones wrote:
Every sport gets commercialised it's part of living in capitalist societies. Still there's a massive difference between what we're currently being served and what is now on the horizon. That'll be the end of me watching Arsenal there and then.

Yep, this is it for me. Sure, the Premier league and Sky got the ball rolling in 1992 and then the second wave of money in the mid-00s further created a gap but this isn't just an extension of an existing trend, it's re-writing the rule book.

lorddulaarsenal

Wilson wrote:
Fuck it. Lets introduce paid voting on penalties. Have fans vote for their GK/pen taker on which way to go and have it delivered to each before the kick. Package it as interactive fan participation.

That’s the spirit.

Only then can we truly get fully invested

BWooley

Frankly, I think this is a reaction to UEFA's new CL proposal. My guess is that the ESL members wanted even more favourable CL qualification rules that all but ensured that they would qualify each year and when UEFA didn't go as far as they wanted, they have come out with this. I'd surmise that that UEFA will offer to make further changes and then this league gets postponed for a year and then shelved altogether.

Clrnc

jones wrote:
Every sport gets commercialised it's part of living in capitalist societies. Still there's a massive difference between what we're currently being served and what is now on the horizon. That'll be the end of me watching Arsenal there and then.

Fucking yanks. Only people on earth even more certain than Germans to ruin everything for everyone

Wasn't Perez and the Spanish giants the people pushing this through initially? The yanks are culprits but in this case more of a follower? Even Juventus is a bigger culprit, Agnelli completely backstabbed the ECA by pretending to be friendly to UEFA's plans.

Famousno10

I think there will be a lot of knee jerk posturing from the PL, UEFA etc until they concede. They have to. Otherwise they lose the bigger clubs for good, and the money that goes with them.
They created this monster themselves really. Years of greed from all of the football bodies, and allowing billionaire ownership by oligarchs and US franchise models monopolising football was never going to go well for real football fans.
In addition, our club, Man United and liverpool could always say that our financial wealth mainly came from our historical success through football, something spurs from a lesser extent could also. That argument holds less water now.

jones

Clrnc wrote:
jones wrote:
Every sport gets commercialised it's part of living in capitalist societies. Still there's a massive difference between what we're currently being served and what is now on the horizon. That'll be the end of me watching Arsenal there and then.

Fucking yanks. Only people on earth even more certain than Germans to ruin everything for everyone

Wasn't Perez and the Spanish giants the people pushing this through initially? The yanks are culprits but in this case more of a follower? Even Juventus is a bigger culprit, Agnelli completely backstabbed the ECA by pretending to be friendly to UEFA's plans.

Yeah Perez is the head but it's mostly American owners (all English clubs bar Chelsea and City). Was mostly talking about the system of no promotion and relegation and the bank funding the whole farce

goon

BWooley wrote:
Frankly, I think this is a reaction to UEFA's new CL proposal. My guess is that the ESL members wanted even more favourable CL qualification rules that all but ensured that they would qualify each year and when UEFA didn't go as far as they wanted, they have come out with this. I'd surmise that that UEFA will offer to make further changes and then this league gets postponed for a year and then shelved altogether.

Yeah, the timing makes this pretty obvious, announced a day before the new UEFA proposal has been ratified.

Personally I still can't see this going ahead, but UEFA and football more generally have come out so hard against it, I wonder how much they're in the mood to compromise. If not, what do the 12 do? Bear in mind, a wildly unpopular league with fans, former pros and even heads of state, excluding certain big clubs like Bayern, Dortmund and PSG, will not be as lucrative as they might be hoping. The Premier League 6 in particular have a lot of lose in PL TV money, so if the Premier League stand firm, they'll back down.

jones

goon wrote:
Bear in mind, a wildly unpopular league with fans, former pros and even heads of state, excluding certain big clubs like Bayern, Dortmund and PSG, will not be as lucrative as they might be hoping.

I think you're wildly underestimating the domestic appeal domestic leagues have. England is a separate case as it stands to lose six out of twenty teams but Italian and Spanish fans won't stop watching their domestic leagues just because the big clubs aren't there. German fans most definitely won't stop watching Bundesliga games even if Bayern and Dortmund were to break away which they aren't at the moment. Anyway it said twelve founding clubs but fifteen permanent ESL clubs, who are the remaining three?

Still it's a good question this seems like a poorly thought out idea. The legal and financial backlash they stand to face is massive and all this just to get a better bargaining position seems a bit far fetched. This could be the start of a situation like in boxing with multiple governing bodies but the complications especially for players moving are much worse, no idea how this is supposed to work out unless the ESL packs it in and apologises.

Claudius

These guys were told to fuck off when Liverpool and United first made that announcement a few years ago. Instead they came back and made an announcement with the backing of all the big clubs. This is happening.

goon

jones wrote:
goon wrote:
Bear in mind, a wildly unpopular league with fans, former pros and even heads of state, excluding certain big clubs like Bayern, Dortmund and PSG, will not be as lucrative as they might be hoping.

I think you're wildly underestimating the domestic appeal domestic leagues have. England is a separate case as it stands to lose six out of twenty teams but Italian and Spanish fans won't stop watching their domestic leagues just because the big clubs aren't there. German fans most definitely won't stop watching Bundesliga games even if Bayern and Dortmund were to break away which they aren't at the moment. Anyway it said twelve founding clubs but fifteen permanent ESL clubs, who are the remaining three?

Still it's a good question this seems like a poorly thought out idea. The legal and financial backlash they stand to face is massive and all this just to get a better bargaining position seems a bit far fetched. This could be the start of a situation like in boxing with multiple governing bodies but the complications especially for players moving are much worse, no idea how this is supposed to work out unless the ESL packs it in and apologises.

Sorry, I was actually referring to the Super League and how unpopular the idea is, not domestic leagues. I just wonder how much TV companies or sponsors would pay for something so unpopular. They would at least want to see how it all pans out and that is a big risk for the founders if they push ahead with it. Without compromise and agreement, I think this is a lose lose situation.

Mirth

goon wrote:
BWooley wrote:
Frankly, I think this is a reaction to UEFA's new CL proposal. My guess is that the ESL members wanted even more favourable CL qualification rules that all but ensured that they would qualify each year and when UEFA didn't go as far as they wanted, they have come out with this. I'd surmise that that UEFA will offer to make further changes and then this league gets postponed for a year and then shelved altogether.

Yeah, the timing makes this pretty obvious, announced a day before the new UEFA proposal has been ratified.

Personally I still can't see this going ahead, but UEFA and football more generally have come out so hard against it, I wonder how much they're in the mood to compromise. If not, what do the 12 do? Bear in mind, a wildly unpopular league with fans, former pros and even heads of state, excluding certain big clubs like Bayern, Dortmund and PSG, will not be as lucrative as they might be hoping. The Premier League 6 in particular have a lot of lose in PL TV money, so if the Premier League stand firm, they'll back down.

If this was posturing would Vinai really step down from the ECA"

Claudius

Mirth wrote:
goon wrote:
Yeah, the timing makes this pretty obvious, announced a day before the new UEFA proposal has been ratified.

Personally I still can't see this going ahead, but UEFA and football more generally have come out so hard against it, I wonder how much they're in the mood to compromise. If not, what do the 12 do? Bear in mind, a wildly unpopular league with fans, former pros and even heads of state, excluding certain big clubs like Bayern, Dortmund and PSG, will not be as lucrative as they might be hoping. The Premier League 6 in particular have a lot of lose in PL TV money, so if the Premier League stand firm, they'll back down.

If this was posturing would Vinai really step down from the ECA"

Folks are in denial.
This isn’t a proposal like the last time. This is an announcement

goon

Any threat has to be real in order for it to be taken seriously, and if your demands are not met, you have to be willing to execute, and that's what I think all this is about.

UEFA are going scorched earth with their response. Feels like what actually happens next will be decided in the courts and whether UEFA and co will be able to carry out their threats.

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