Burnley vs Arsenal | Sat, 12:30: Page 20 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Burnley vs Arsenal | Sat, 12:30

awooga83

With Xhaka, he's always been a massively flawed player. Majority of the time is pretty average player, very occasionally has a decent top performance bit throughout his game is filled with more often then not his errors lead to goals being conceded. I don't of it's still the case but his errors leading to fish stats was top in the league. He's just always had that in his game you can guarantee is you play him he will cost you points in the league.

This is not unknown anymore your just need to cut that out of your team immediately. You cannot build anything with that in your side.

Bosscielny

It’s a shame another horrendous individual fuckup, and a dodgy penalty decision, has changed what was looking like a composed and comfortable away win into a result where Arteta’s getting compared unfavourably with a youth coach because he didn’t sub off our best player, who, what, 9 days ago(?) set up the winner in basically identical circumstances.

Some of the stuff you read on here isn’t even rational anymore.

Claudius

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert wrote:
Absolutely fed up of this PL campaign and the results have been dreadful.

However I can somewhat forgive them because we are finally making quality chances - enough to score two or three - in every match.

My main problem (in addition to the utter scum that is PGMOL) is that we still go through prolonged periods in every match where we cannot retain possession or just get outright dominated.

I wonder if it's something in Arteta's and his coaches' coaching or just the dogshit usual suspect players we have that lead to this happening.

I don’t know how much you watch other teams, but this is actually consistent with teams like Untied and Chelsea. United are especially good at just knocking in goals whenever they are on top in a game, but they can go long periods where they are dominated.

We are dealing with two sets of problems. First, we aren’t creating enough chances - today we had a lot of possession and kept the ball at halfway line. Second, we aren’t taking advantage of the chances we do have. Saka had some misses, and that chance Pepe didn’t take on his right was gilt-edged. Pepe alone had 0,75 xG, so some decent chances befell him.

Gazza M

Klaus wrote:
What's weird is that Xhaka used to be absolutely key to the way we played even when he was terrible because there was no one else to cover his role, but the role has changed now. He's just bumming around in midfield nowadays and preventing the ball from going anywhere quickly. He's the least press resistant player in the starting eleven too. Yet he's still one of the first names on the teamsheet.

this is why I was puzzled when people were putting him and partey in their line ups. he's completely redundant now. he's not the main tempo setter, he's not the main ball handler in midfield any more. there's really no reason for him to be in the team

Coombs

Been saying this for ages now, the Xhaka role is redundant, let alone Xhaka himself.

Claudius

He’s actually been decent last few weeks. Had very good distribution, lots of final 3rd entries, and working hard on defense. That is of course relative to what he has done before and what else is available on the team.

We desperately need to move on from him. these last 5 years have been marked by him limiting our ability to speed up play in both directions. I hope Edu pulls the trigger on a quality CM this summer. To their credit they got one in last year, but that just shows the extent of the damage we had done to the centre of the park

awooga83

Xhaka should have been a key area we were looking to address for a while because he's everything we are at the moment. Even when he's done 'well' by his standards it's totally average just not really hurting the team while not doing a lot really.

He's the exact example of a mid table player but he remains a major part of the team masked in the he's not the worse problem. Maybe he's not but if your relying on him you have big problems.

He's been an ever present through are period of mediocrity and to me it's no coincidence. I didn't like that Arteta brought him back into the fold but I could believe that it was just an act to get to summer to shift him on. But to keep playing him this season worries me on Arteta's judgment.

AAStyle

No surprise considering that Arteta "convinced" him to stay. What else could we expect

Claudius

awooga83 wrote:
Xhaka should have been a key area we were looking to address for a while because he's everything we are at the moment. Even when he's done 'well' by his standards it's totally average just not really hurting the team while not doing a lot really.

He's the exact example of a mid table player but he remains a major part of the team masked in the he's not the worse problem. Maybe he's not but if your relying on him you have big problems.

He's been an ever present through are period of mediocrity and to me it's no coincidence. I didn't like that Arteta brought him back into the fold but I could believe that it was just an act to get to summer to shift him on. But to keep playing him this season worries me on Arteta's judgment.

I don’t think it reflects on Arteta’s judgment that he kept him.
Nobody can say that Willock, Guendouzi, Torreira, AMN, Elneny etc are better midfielders than Xhaka.

We need to separate issues here. Xhaka IS a mid table player. But we built a mid table midfield with no alternatives to him. The safest thing was to keep him while we found and onboarded our single premium midfielder. We now need to go out again this summer and find another premium midfield. I’m just trying to imagine this team’s midfield with no Xhaka this season.

awooga83

Well that would have been an area I would be saying it's clearly not good enough rather then his talk to make him stay when it seemed like he wanted to go. I do worry about his judgement because i don't know if he recognises how flawed Xhaka is. When I see that he seemed to be on board for the Willian signing as well as playing him constantly it makes me question his judgment more generally.

Claudius

What were options when he wanted to go? Did we have good offers and good replacements lined up? Why would Mikel come into the job and sabotage himself?

AAStyle

Stubbornness works just like that, it is self sabotage

awooga83

Well from the reports Xhaka wanted to leave at all costs. I have no idea where he may have ended up but for me he was not going to be part of Arsenal becoming a better team and personally I think he's a very toxic individual so I would have wanted him out asap.

As I said I could believe that the initial positive chat was to get through the initial season but after that I don't get it. Nothing good will come from him continuing to be part of the team. Xhaka is an average player but his flaws make him a negative so I'd rather put up with some other average player who doesn't have those errors while we get a replacement.

flobaba

awooga83 wrote:
I do worry about his judgement because i don't know if he recognises how flawed Xhaka is. When I see that he seemed to be on board for the Willian signing as well as playing him constantly it makes me question his judgment more generally.

Do you really believe he doesn’t realize how bad Xhaka is or can be? You really believe that? A Barcelona midfield product. A man city assistant coach. Someone who just said a day or two ago that we have very very far to go from where he wants us to be at. You really think he doesn’t know what a top level player looks like and doesn’t recognize our limitations? You think someone at his level of the game sees Xhaka and goes, there he is, the midfielder of my dreams...

flobaba

Claudius wrote:
I’m just trying to imagine this team’s midfield with no Xhaka this season.

We’d be worse off for sure. Flawed as he is, he is clearly more consistent and more influential when it comes to dictating a midfield than Ceballos.

Claudius

flobaba wrote:
Claudius wrote:
I’m just trying to imagine this team’s midfield with no Xhaka this season.

We’d be worse off for sure. Flawed as he is, he is clearly more consistent and more influential when it comes to dictating a midfield than Ceballos.

I mean there’s a good example. Clearly far more talented than Xhaka. But not as durable, so always seems to be ramping up his form. And while he can do everything in midfield, he also lacks pace like Xhaka. Wouldn’t be able to stop the Tielemans goal either.

This season, we have removed Martinez, Sokratis, Mustafi, Guendouzi, Torreira, AMN, Willock, Ozil and even Macey. We need to go again this summer, but if folks are expecting a mass clear out, they should sort out expectations right now. It’s a lot of turnover both in terms managing culture and doing the actual transfer business

Gazza M

flobaba wrote:
Claudius wrote:
I’m just trying to imagine this team’s midfield with no Xhaka this season.

We’d be worse off for sure. Flawed as he is, he is clearly more consistent and more influential when it comes to dictating a midfield than Ceballos.

guardiola pumped up the players he had when he first joined city, but they were bombed out at the first opportunity for pieces he actually wanted. I'd like to think arteta views xhaka the same way. leverage whatever good he's capable of doing, try to mask his flaws, but prepare to upgrade him, or at least push him down the pecking order, as soon as funds are available

Claudius

That’s the balance. We need to get these guys to fight and feel like they’re part of a cause. But trim them. The sacrifice of Xhaka would send a strong message that there are no sacred cows. But Arteta can see where/ how the ball flows in the team, and that Chaka imposes a ceiling

Clrnc

flobaba wrote:
awooga83 wrote:
I do worry about his judgement because i don't know if he recognises how flawed Xhaka is. When I see that he seemed to be on board for the Willian signing as well as playing him constantly it makes me question his judgment more generally.

Do you really believe he doesn’t realize how bad Xhaka is or can be? You really believe that? A Barcelona midfield product. A man city assistant coach. Someone who just said a day or two ago that we have very very far to go from where he wants us to be at. You really think he doesn’t know what a top level player looks like and doesn’t recognize our limitations? You think someone at his level of the game sees Xhaka and goes, there he is, the midfielder of my dreams...

I think firstly he genuinely likes Xhaka as a player and admire his quality. City tried to bring him there before we moved for him. He has mentioned that a lot of times. Hertha had a good bid 25-30m for him but Arteta pleaded with him to stay and sold his ideals to Xhaka. If he don't think Xhaka is quality why won't he take 25m for him and get a good replacement?

Secondly Arteta also have a lot of time for players with good attitude in training. You have seen how many times he mentioned that about Xhaka, Willian and Luiz which is why he will always keep them around the team.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Well that's a bummer. So another written-off season next time?

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