Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 99 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Rohit

When we were in the doldrums, it was because we lacked quality, our position in the table was a reflection of the quality we had. Our form since Boxing Day is down to Arteta though despite the players. I have never understood this logic.

What we are doing right now is simply not sustainable. I loathe the reference to XG tables. We will not win games if all we can muster is one shot on target and 4 shots overall in the regulation 90. It's also very likely that our front 4 next season will remain the same. They will not become better in the final 3rd with the addition of a partner for Partey. Our labouring approach play seems very intentional. Arteta will need to learn and change his attacking game. May be just get someone like Bergkamp to assist him rather than Stuivenberg.

FEBravo

Joking aside, this tool is pretty handy. While you can have us arbitrarily use random dates to have us higher or lower, putting in random dates in 2021 you see us around 4th/5th, which is what you would expect with our squad. So while Arteta in that sense is not doing too bad, and there has been improvement, the issue for me is that I don't see the added value he brings. I would expect any manager to be able to get us there with this squad. Add to this the dour football we are playing and it's hard to be overly positive or optimistic.

jones

Rohit wrote:
When we were in the doldrums, it was because we lacked quality, our position in the table was a reflection of the quality we had. Our form since Boxing Day is down to Arteta though despite the players. I have never understood this logic.

Exactly. The one thing we can judge is the level of play from our squad from before they came here or were managed by Arteta. Partey was one of the best midfielders in La Liga, Pepe one of the best players in France. Auba was the best striker in the league, Tierney Gabriel Leno even the kids all good enough to play for a CL level team. A good manager can get them all or at least the majority of them firing for an extended time. If Arteta overthinks his approach and gets in better help all the better, Fungus made a career of overseeing capable coaches under him for decades. The problem is he doesn't give any signs that he's willing to change. Since we're stuck with him all we can do is hope that he's secretly self reflecting even while he's throwing his squad under the bus.

Ray

I’m sure if we sacked Arteta in December and his replacement went on to have the best set of results bar City in the league, everyone would be raving about him.

Clrnc

Rohit wrote:
When we were in the doldrums, it was because we lacked quality, our position in the table was a reflection of the quality we had. Our form since Boxing Day is down to Arteta though despite the players. I have never understood this logic.

What we are doing right now is simply not sustainable. I loathe the reference to XG tables. We will not win games if all we can muster is one shot on target and 4 shots overall in the regulation 90.

I particularly love it when people bring our xG tables when we dominate games and couldn't win, but never ever mentioned xGs when we fluked a win with 1 shot on target. I think all of us can see our performances every game is not good enough and the big wins from big games have almost all came from a park the bus counter attack philosophy. I really don't mind how boring and useless we are if we can win consistently like this but we can't even do that. We are just too inconsistent overall.

Claudius

Ray wrote:
I’m sure if we sacked Arteta in December and his replacement went on to have the best set of results bar City in the league, everyone would be raving about him.

Most of us wanted him sacked in December. He turned it around. We assumed he had lost the dressing room and there was no hope.

Leicester and West Ham have in different recent seasons had turnarounds where they go from really woeful form to being excellent the next season. If we can ride this form into next season, we could do good things

Rohit

Ray wrote:
I’m sure if we sacked Arteta in December and his replacement went on to have the best set of results bar City in the league, everyone would be raving about him.

That's just presumptuous. I think a lot of fans are very cognizant of the new manager bounce. I don't think anyone 'raved' about Arteta despite the FA Cup win last season. Fans saw aspects of management that were encouraging and wanted to see what we got from him in a full season. A lot of fans wanted to see the back of Emery despite the 5th placed finish and Europa final. You believe we can continue to play the way we have and show some kind of consistency then fair enough. A lot will have to change from Arteta for us to mount a meaningful challenge for CL places next season.

Rohit

Also every team goes through good runs. Some start well, some have a great middle third of the season and some end well. Focus shifts, priorities change, injuries make a difference. Ultimately the table doesn't lie.

For me personally, it isn't even about the table. I just don't enjoy what I see from Arsenal. We are extremely difficult on the eye and don't have the results to show for it.

Villareal is a big blot on this season. However, we didn't exactly cruise through to the semi finals. We had our struggles against Besiktas, Olympiacos and Slavia Prague too.

I firmly believe that unless Arteta changes aspects of his management, coaching and approach to matches we will struggle next season too over 38 games and fight for that Europa League spot. We may start well, or end well again, or have a brilliant run like Emery did sometime mid season.

Luckily if we win the Conference League we can qualify for the EL.

Ray

Personally I couldn’t give a toss about how it is to watch Arsenal as long as results are being delivered.

Raving / praising whatever the word that doesn’t matter, point being people would have been positive about this new manager. Arteta had a poor start to the season, and some of that could be attributed to lack of stability on new signings and the focus being on shifting out the dross. Since then we’ve been good in the league, I think that warrants Arteta time.

Rohit

Yes, it's normal for fans to have hope for a manager they don't know. We have had a full season of Arteta though and while results are ultimately the currency and we have had encouragement since the turn of the year, they are not sustainable with the football being played. For every Chelsea and Palace, we will get a Fulham and Everton. Arteta is here to stay. I am certain about that and will get behind him but if his approach remains same, we will be not be competitive in the League.

Qwiss

Ray wrote:
Personally I couldn’t give a toss about how it is to watch Arsenal as long as results are being delivered.

Raving / praising whatever the word that doesn’t matter, point being people would have been positive about this new manager. Arteta had a poor start to the season, and some of that could be attributed to lack of stability on new signings and the focus being on shifting out the dross. Since then we’ve been good in the league, I think that warrants Arteta time.

People would've been positive but thats hardly a brilliant insight is it? People tend to give managers a bit of time, certainly last season Arteta's league results weren't great but people still remained somewhat positive, another season later and it makes sense that people are less positive when we've failed to progress from there.

goon

Rohit wrote:
while results are ultimately the currency and we have had encouragement since the turn of the year, they are not sustainable with the football being played.

Actually I'm pretty sure the results align quite well with the underlying metrics since Xmas. I agree that the margins are still too tight to go on a good run reliably, but that only calls into doubt our ability to break the 70+ point barrier for a possible top 4 finish.

Again, this is not a massive thumbs up to Arteta's management. The pre-xmas period DID happen and even if it didn't, it would have basically meant we'd be performing to about expectations rather than well below.

I don't know what's so controversial here or why it's such an issue to make such a casual observation on our form.

Ray

Qwiss! wrote:
Ray wrote:
Personally I couldn’t give a toss about how it is to watch Arsenal as long as results are being delivered.

Raving / praising whatever the word that doesn’t matter, point being people would have been positive about this new manager. Arteta had a poor start to the season, and some of that could be attributed to lack of stability on new signings and the focus being on shifting out the dross. Since then we’ve been good in the league, I think that warrants Arteta time.

People would've been positive but thats hardly a brilliant insight is it? People tend to give managers a bit of time, certainly last season Arteta's league results weren't great but people still remained somewhat positive, another season later and it makes sense that people are less positive when we've failed to progress from there.

Yes it’s not meant to be insight, just an observation of fans responses. I’m not saying Arteta has done well, I think there’s some mitigating circumstances, so he deserves time to prove himself.

flobaba

"Deserves got nothing to do with it"

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
Ray wrote:
Personally I couldn’t give a toss about how it is to watch Arsenal as long as results are being delivered.

Raving / praising whatever the word that doesn’t matter, point being people would have been positive about this new manager. Arteta had a poor start to the season, and some of that could be attributed to lack of stability on new signings and the focus being on shifting out the dross. Since then we’ve been good in the league, I think that warrants Arteta time.

People would've been positive but thats hardly a brilliant insight is it? People tend to give managers a bit of time, certainly last season Arteta's league results weren't great but people still remained somewhat positive, another season later and it makes sense that people are less positive when we've failed to progress from there.

Given we're second in the league table since christmas. How many teams do you feel have progressed this season compaired to how good they were last season out of the 20 teams? What number would you put on that?

Qwiss

Well United have progressed, Leeds, West Ham, Man City, Everton, Aston Villa.

We are standing still. Arteta finished 8 last season, the mitigating factor there was Emery started the season. That he's 9th with a game to go given a full season is not progress.

Claudius

Qwiss! wrote:
Well United have progressed, Leeds, West Ham, Man City, Everton, Aston Villa.

We are standing still. Arteta finished 8 last season, the mitigating factor there was Emery started the season. That he's 9th with a game to go given a full season is not progress.

If we are out of Europe, I believe we will finish ahead of all the non-Mancunian teams in that list

Claudius

By the way, I think Pépé got a lot better over this season, and was more productive in both directions. And this is someone who didn’t get tons of minutes. Next season can be a breakout year for him if he continues to push hard.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
Well United have progressed, Leeds, West Ham, Man City, Everton, Aston Villa.

We are standing still. Arteta finished 8 last season, the mitigating factor there was Emery started the season. That he's 9th with a game to go given a full season is not progress.

If we are out of Europe, I believe we will finish ahead of all the non-Mancunian teams in that list

The question was about progress not their level.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
By the way, I think Pépé got a lot better over this season, and was more productive in both directions. And this is someone who didn’t get tons of minutes. Next season can be a breakout year for him if he continues to push hard.

Pepe was great when given a run, as many of us expected. Seen a stat earlier saying first season in Nice 8 goals, second season 14, 3rd season 23. First season at Arsenal 8 goals, second season 14... Its probably bullshit but I liked it anyway. Definitely think he's good for 15 league goals if he's played regularly.

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