Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 211 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

goon

Qwiss! wrote:
jones wrote:
I know you were trolling, it's what droll trolls like you do.

Droll troll!

What you say,

Droll Troll!

Hey hey hey...

Burns has been compared with a few classic TV characters but I have to say I think Frank Reynolds is a bit wide of the mark.

Don Pacifico

Yeah, that's pretty much it for me. I'm not going to pretend I've done an in-depth analysis of the respective squads but United appear to be stronger on paper to me and similarly, Spurs feel a tad stronger to me too. But like you say, we've invested in potential, so hopefully that puts us in a good place for the next few seasons - it certainly feels that way at the moment.

Burnwinter

goon wrote:
Burns has been compared with a few classic TV characters but I have to say I think Frank Reynolds is a bit wide of the mark.

Let's face it, I'm never going to live down that Lisa Simpson incident. Third degree burns to 90% of my OMITT account that time.

Big Willie

Don Pacifico wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
Let's separate the pundit predictions and what they are saying from those who were sceptical about Arteta's qualities and what their predictions mean.

Whilst both groups will predict the same thing, eg us finishing outside top 4, Quincy's point is that these predictions include both how the squad and the manager is rated. Whilst the Nevilles and others who are perceived as being too positive about Arteta will still predict us finishing outside top four it's because they believe our squad just isn't good enough even if Arteta does all he can. Those predictions are most closely aligned with what Ricky, yourself, and the other Arteta in boys would say. Our problems stem from our shit squad and Arteta had a huge jobs to get us anywhere near there.

The likes of Quincy, Jones and the Arteta out guys predicted that we'd finish outside top four as well but mainly because they don't rate him. I predicted the same as well, not because I didn't think our squad wasn't good enough to get fourth, I believed we had a good enough squad to finish fourth or at the very least get to within a couple points or so of Spurs and United. I'm sure predictions would have been very different from the Arteta sceptics had we had what was perceived as a better manager at the time.

My view on Arteta is changing somewhat from Arteta out at all to being more optimistic but I'll have to see how it goes between here and the end of the season before I fully come around.

Regardless of what pundits think, I don't personally believe we have the 4th best squad in the league. My experience has been that as fans we can often overrate our own players and as such, trying to gauge the opinion from a more neutral (albeit imperfect) barometer may help articulate that point.

Whether it's the fourth best or not, it certainly was good enough to finish higher than we have the last two seasons. And it certainly isn't so far off top that we'd be unable to challenge for it or finish behind Leicester who finished 5th both times, West Ham (who were 2 points off 4th) and fucking Wolves.

Point is whether we had the 4th best squad by whatever measure you want to use, it was good enough to finish 4th or at least within a few points of it with proper coaching.

The Arteta optimists of the time would have you believe he did an amazing job at the time considering how bad our squad was but that simply isn't true. Ok some work was needed to be done with the squad but first of all coaching needed to be effective. He seemed to have worked on the former and now seems to have managed to improve the latter.

AAStyle

Yes, West Ham and Leicester City showed last season that with a proper manager you can make your team overperform. Naturally, as we had/have a mediocre manager, we finished below those 2 teams.

What is happening today is quite simple: it is the same effect that Ole had with ManU. There will be highs, not always we will be on a low. And yes, is undeniable that Arteta, even mediocre, will get better every season as he is gaining experience. The madness is allowing him to take his first coaching steps at a Top tier club like Arsenal.

Bosscielny

Terrible post.

Don Pacifico

Big Willie wrote:
Don Pacifico wrote:
Regardless of what pundits think, I don't personally believe we have the 4th best squad in the league. My experience has been that as fans we can often overrate our own players and as such, trying to gauge the opinion from a more neutral (albeit imperfect) barometer may help articulate that point.

Whether it's the fourth best or not, it certainly was good enough to finish higher than we have the last two seasons. And it certainly isn't so far off top that we'd be unable to challenge for it or finish behind Leicester who finished 5th both times, West Ham (who were 2 points off 4th) and fucking Wolves.

Point is whether we had the 4th best squad by whatever measure you want to use, it was good enough to finish 4th or at least within a few points of it with proper coaching.

The Arteta optimists of the time would have you believe he did an amazing job at the time considering how bad our squad was but that simply isn't true. Ok some work was needed to be done with the squad but first of all coaching needed to be effective. He seemed to have worked on the former and now seems to have managed to improve the latter.

I'm not sure anyone said he did an amazing job last season. Think most 'optimists' thought he did an okay job that was passable given the squad available. And in terms of finishing a few points away from 4th, we weren't a million miles away (6 points).

Anyways, not sure how that's relevant in relation to this season. Starting to lose the thread on what we're debating! Bottom line, my point was that if we finish 4th this season, I think that's a good result as I don't believe we have the 4th best squad.

Big Willie

Don Pacifico wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
Whether it's the fourth best or not, it certainly was good enough to finish higher than we have the last two seasons. And it certainly isn't so far off top that we'd be unable to challenge for it or finish behind Leicester who finished 5th both times, West Ham (who were 2 points off 4th) and fucking Wolves.

Point is whether we had the 4th best squad by whatever measure you want to use, it was good enough to finish 4th or at least within a few points of it with proper coaching.

The Arteta optimists of the time would have you believe he did an amazing job at the time considering how bad our squad was but that simply isn't true. Ok some work was needed to be done with the squad but first of all coaching needed to be effective. He seemed to have worked on the former and now seems to have managed to improve the latter.

I'm not sure anyone said he did an amazing job last season. Think most 'optimists' thought he did an okay job that was passable given the squad available. And in terms of finishing a few points away from 4th, we weren't a million miles away (6 points).

Anyways, not sure how that's relevant in relation to this season. Starting to lose the thread on what we're debating! Bottom line, my point was that if we finish 4th this season, I think that's a good result as I don't believe we have the 4th best squad.

If we finish fourth this season I'd also consider it a good result.

My view on Arteta are changing with our recent change in the way we play. Even if we didn't have the results, the performances alone make me more optimistic that we can possibly make this actually work.

We are more direct, aggressive, playing more through the middle, linking up and becoming more unpredictable rather than playing our usual wait for Tierney to make a run and cross into the box. It's all looking a lot more positive to me. Hopefully this is a permanent change to our shape and the way we attack.

For me the biggest issue I've had with Arteta was that he couldn't set up a functioning attack. We now, whether by luck or by choice, have found a balance that works and hopefully we can build on that and continue to emphasise these strengths of ours.

KurtEisner

Big Willie wrote:
Don Pacifico wrote:
I'm not sure anyone said he did an amazing job last season. Think most 'optimists' thought he did an okay job that was passable given the squad available. And in terms of finishing a few points away from 4th, we weren't a million miles away (6 points).

Anyways, not sure how that's relevant in relation to this season. Starting to lose the thread on what we're debating! Bottom line, my point was that if we finish 4th this season, I think that's a good result as I don't believe we have the 4th best squad.

If we finish fourth this season I'd also consider it a good result.

My view on Arteta are changing with our recent change in the way we play. Even if we didn't have the results, the performances alone make me more optimistic that we can possibly make this actually work.

We are more direct, aggressive, playing more through the middle, linking up and becoming more unpredictable rather than playing our usual wait for Tierney to make a run and cross into the box. It's all looking a lot more positive to me. Hopefully this is a permanent change to our shape and the way we attack.

For me the biggest issue I've had with Arteta was that he couldn't set up a functioning attack. We now, whether by luck or by choice, have found a balance that works and hopefully we can build on that and continue to emphasise these strengths of ours.

Agree with this, I remain a bit sceptical considering the mind numbingly boring shit we served up in most of our matches over the last two years, but with every passing game I'm changing my mind on Arteta bit by bit, I hope he keeps it up and proves me completely wrong. I honestly don't expect us to challenge for the Premier League, or even think Top 4 is a must, there's too many strong teams in the league to really count on CL football. All I want from Arsenal is watching an entertaining, good football match that gets me emotionionally invested once or twice a week. If Arteta can keep delivering that now, I wouldn't mind sticking with him even if we don't finish fourth.

Big Willie

Kurt Eisner wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
If we finish fourth this season I'd also consider it a good result.

My view on Arteta are changing with our recent change in the way we play. Even if we didn't have the results, the performances alone make me more optimistic that we can possibly make this actually work.

We are more direct, aggressive, playing more through the middle, linking up and becoming more unpredictable rather than playing our usual wait for Tierney to make a run and cross into the box. It's all looking a lot more positive to me. Hopefully this is a permanent change to our shape and the way we attack.

For me the biggest issue I've had with Arteta was that he couldn't set up a functioning attack. We now, whether by luck or by choice, have found a balance that works and hopefully we can build on that and continue to emphasise these strengths of ours.

Agree with this, I remain a bit sceptical considering the mind numbingly boring shit we served up in most of our matches over the last two years, but with every passing game I'm changing my mind on Arteta bit by bit, I hope he keeps it up and proves me completely wrong. I honestly don't expect us to challenge for the Premier League, or even think Top 4 is a must, there's too many strong teams in the league to really count on CL football. All I want from Arsenal is watching an entertaining, good football match that gets me emotionionally invested once or twice a week. If Arteta can keep delivering that now, I wouldn't mind sticking with him even if we don't finish fourth.

That's pretty much it for me at this point. The football on show was so drab and defensive for the longest period that I'd sometimes fall asleep while watching games. Never thought I'd see the day.

If we continue to play good entertaining football I'm sure we'll pick up enough points along the way to make the season interesting but that's a by product of what I hope to see when I watch us, not the main reason.

KurtEisner

Oh for a while there Arsenal games were the most reliable way of putting myself to sleep, not proud of it, but last season I did admittedly listen to a lot of games with my eyes closed moreso than I watched them. It's why I soured on Arteta so quickly and wanted him gone up until just a little while ago. Our football simply wasn't fun for anyone most days, and that's what I just can't accept from this team. Football should be an art. Ours felt like a chore. It's such a relief that I don't fell this way anymore and that I actually look forward to our games again. I enjoyed the loss against City more than most of our victories last season, and I'm still pissed about the injustice of it, which is such a nice change of pace from just resignation and apathy. So Arteta and the team did definitely turn around the mood around the club, and to be fair, Arteta did so once before as well. It seems he's good at managing a crisis, now let's just hope he's learned enough that he won't have to be for a while.

Burnwinter

Looks like the chequebook is open this window, suggesting Ben White's fee may not have affected KSE's appetite to spend after all ... no doubt there are limits, but it's exciting they may be willing to keep investing to get us back in the top tier.

ohboy

Burnwinter wrote:
Looks like the chequebook is open this window, suggesting Ben White's fee may not have affected KSE's appetite to spend after all ... no doubt, there are limits, but it's exciting they may be willing to keep investing to get us back in the top tier.

If true it is exciting.

I think we need four more to be able to get top 4, and then cement our place in it.

DM,CM,False 9, Striker

You could argue right back as well.

With Saliba coming back, we really would have a competitive, hungry group.

Sicario

Nah, we just need a CM and Striker and we are good.

If they pull off Vhalovic this Jan then not only will I be very happy/surprised but it is the biggest indication that ‘we got our Arsenal back’.

Gunner89

A marked improvement over the last couple of months.

I'm hoping KSE will invest to keep us in top 4.

lorddulaarsenal

If we invest well this window on a player like Vlahovic and a CM then even if we miss out on top four this term I’d be very confident going in to next season.

lorddulaarsenal

Patino will explode next season

Anzac

Based upon today's lack of performance in The FA Cup it is evident we are very reliant upon our best/strongest line-up remaining fit, and we need to improve at CF and midfield.
That said the heavily rotated side should have been up for this opportunity and it would appear that nothing Arteta did had any impact or improvement on the performance.
Verdict = still very much a work in progress with our worst performance of the season following after our best.

KurtEisner

If Arteta's still here next season he needs to learn from this and start rotating more frequently, because while it is true that a guy like Cedric is just a terrible football player, no one's gonna look good playing 90 minutes after months of barely getting any playing time. It's no wonder Lokonga looked a lot better at the start of the season, he was actually in game shape.

Sicario

I’m pro-Arteta as you all know but letting go of AMN before getting in a replacement seems like a idiotic decision. If not at least keep the guy until Jan 31st. Apparently he played right back for Roma today hahaha.

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