Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 209 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Burnwinter

Can't fault the season too much at this exact moment, but the jury is out.

It was a surprise to me that exiling a relatively diligent Aubameyang came at the same time as an uptick in morale and output across the rest of the first eleven. We all wondered how the hell we'd score goals when this season opened.

If you'd said to me on match day four that Arteta's only immediate objective was to bed down a new team and get things happening ... that's probably what I thought.

In the new context with what we have to do to keep our longer term momentum, we need a manager capable of locking down top four and starting to contend reliably with the top three clubs—either immediately or once we upgrade a couple more regulars.

Way I see it Arteta's now interviewing to be that guy, as opposed to the figurehead of an Arsenalised rebrand. If we don't scrape ahead of our rivals from here, the job of doing that will be just as hard next season and some of our starlets will have their heads turned by more successful clubs.

Gazza M

if we get top 6 he's a lock to stay on, and even if we finish 6th-10th I think he'll still most likely be OK. the age of the team provides a certain level of built in excuses for any inconsistency

goon

I don't think that's true, in so far that I don't think we can really finish 6-10th without performances and the trajectory reflecting (or screaming if we finish 8th or lower) a lack of progress - and it would take quite bad run to finish in those places. The young team excuse only works to justify just missing out on top four, especially if the ultimate target is actually a title run.

Burnwinter

We need top four, or an absolute dust-up for it with United and Spurs to be pleased with the season from here. It's there for us.

Not turning the jets on for nothing, but having choked away at United and at home to City, it's quite urgent to make a statement in the NLD and keep on track.

QuincyAbeyie

Witness the fall of the mid table realist.

Burnwinter

Self-confessed.

It's not that I think these optimistic outcomes are guaranteed, but since we've got Saka, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli and Ødegaard combining brilliantly with an average age of about 21, there's suddenly big incentives to secure a status that makes extending those contracts possible in the face of cashed up competition.

Qwiss

Giving him a contract before the end of the season would be the same mistake United made with Ole. Just look at Emery, he seemed nailed on for a top 4 spot and was gone half a season later. Right now we could easily be bumped out of the top 4 when others play their games in hand anyway. Lets see where we are at the end of the season. Outside the top 6 and he should be sent packing. Top 4 and he's obviously earned a new contract.

Clrnc

If he finish top 4 this season I think there shouldn't be any doubts he is the right one for us, ignoring the brand of football. I think that will be quite an achievement.

But outside of that in current circumstances will be very disappointing and even 5th or 6th his position should be reviewed although it won't happen

QuincyAbeyie

I think we should finish fourth. We have the fourth best team and no CL/EL.

flobaba

Hmm, just wait and watch is what I'd advocate also. I've seen this team rise, crest and fall too many times at too many critical moments for me to say anything confidently about the long term (end of season) positioning. At the moment, it's looking better. Let's see how we handle the loss of the lynchpin of that midfield who (coincidentally?) was coming into form right as the team started to find it's own form. As well as how we handle the challenge of not having Gabriel for our very next game against Spurs. I'm just concerned about the next game.

QuincyAbeyie

Damn, does the Forest match not count as Gabriel's suspension?

jones

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
I think we should finish fourth. We have the fourth best team and no CL/EL.

Exactly, nothing worthy of special praise as if the manager's done some miracle. Since ofty doesn't like the use of 'lowered standards' I'd say the talk on here seems caught up in what we expect the club to do, because in no way or form did Arteta "earn" a new contract if we finish in 4th this season.

Seeing how we're upgrading on everyone why stop at the manager? Leno was a decent goalie good enough for a CL team, we got Ramsdale who's better or more promising in almost every aspect. Unless we finish 2nd and/or start displaying great attacking football for months on end we should look to improve on Arteta as well.

Big Willie

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Damn, does the Forest match not count as Gabriel's suspension?

No Gabriel will be back for Spurs. He was due to miss out in the Liverpool game through suspension but in the postponement hell be banned for Forest. Even if Forest didn't count he'd have been banned for Liverpool next week. So deffo back for Spurs game.

The only competition specific bans are those that come from 5 or 10 yellow cards in the league. Everything else is interchangeable.

goon

jones wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
I think we should finish fourth. We have the fourth best team and no CL/EL.

Exactly, nothing worthy of special praise as if the manager's done some miracle. Since ofty doesn't like the use of 'lowered standards' I'd say the talk on here seems caught up in what we expect the club to do, because in no way or form did Arteta "earn" a new contract if we finish in 4th this season.

Seeing how we're upgrading on everyone why stop at the manager? Leno was a decent goalie good enough for a CL team, we got Ramsdale who's better or more promising in almost every aspect. Unless we finish 2nd and/or start displaying great attacking football for months on end we should look to improve on Arteta as well.

You guys are full of it.

The reason we have the 4th best team, ahead of the biggest spenders in the league, is because of the squad Arteta has built. And I'd love to see how many on here were saying we had a better team than United before it became evident via performances.

But apparently unless we finish ahead of Chelsea and Liverpool then he's done nothing to warrant a new deal 😆

You can sit there and pretend that Mustafi, Sokratis, Kolasinac, Luiz, Xhaka, Bellerin, Elneny, Torreira and Ozil were already top four quality (and loved before Arteta took over apparently) for a team that hasn't finished in the top four since 2016 then I don't know what to say to you.

As for lowering standards, I'm the only one who actually predicted we'd finish 4th, some of you were talking (with all seriousness) about relegation.

flobaba

Big Willie wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Damn, does the Forest match not count as Gabriel's suspension?

No Gabriel will be back for Spurs. He was due to miss out in the Liverpool game through suspension but in the postponement hell be banned for Forest. Even if Forest didn't count he'd have been banned for Liverpool next week. So deffo back for Spurs game.

The only competition specific bans are those that come from 5 or 10 yellow cards in the league. Everything else is interchangeable.

Ah that’s great to hear. Thanks for that clarification Will.

flobaba

jones wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
I think we should finish fourth. We have the fourth best team and no CL/EL.

Seeing how we're upgrading on everyone why stop at the manager? Leno was a decent goalie good enough for a CL team, we got Ramsdale who's better or more promising in almost every aspect. Unless we finish 2nd and/or start displaying great attacking football for months on end we should look to improve on Arteta as well.

Just want to mention that I think it shows lots of courage to keep panning Arteta at his highest moments. Very brave of you sir.

Don Pacifico

I'd actually dispute whether we have the 4th best squad in the league. The vast majority of pundits had us pegged to finish outside of the top 4.

www.bbc.com/sport/football/58141017.amp

Now whilst those predictions will take into account more than just squad ability, that feels a reasonable barometer in terms of how our squad is viewed outside of our fanbase. Let's not forget that many people thought we'd made some bad moves in the transfer market before the season got going, so my hunch would be that neutrals don't rate our squad so highly.

flobaba

We are getting way ahead of ourselves with these sort of comparisons and revision of expectations

QuincyAbeyie

Don Pacifico wrote:
I'd actually dispute whether we have the 4th best squad in the league. The vast majority of pundits had us pegged to finish outside of the top 4.

www.bbc.com/sport/football/58141017.amp

Now whilst those predictions will take into account more than just squad ability, that feels a reasonable barometer in terms of how our squad is viewed outside of our fanbase. Let's not forget that many people thought we'd made some bad moves in the transfer market before the season got going, so my hunch would be that neutrals don't rate our squad so highly.

I didn't think we'd finish fourth either even if I think our squad is the fourth best one. The predictions are a barometer of how the squad + the manager is viewed, not just the former.

The manager wouldn't really matter at all if predictions and squad quality were the same.

jones

goon wrote:
jones wrote:
Exactly, nothing worthy of special praise as if the manager's done some miracle. Since ofty doesn't like the use of 'lowered standards' I'd say the talk on here seems caught up in what we expect the club to do, because in no way or form did Arteta "earn" a new contract if we finish in 4th this season.

Seeing how we're upgrading on everyone why stop at the manager? Leno was a decent goalie good enough for a CL team, we got Ramsdale who's better or more promising in almost every aspect. Unless we finish 2nd and/or start displaying great attacking football for months on end we should look to improve on Arteta as well.

You guys are full of it.

The reason we have the 4th best team, ahead of the biggest spenders in the league, is because of the squad Arteta has built. And I'd love to see how many on here were saying we had a better team than United before it became evident via performances.

But apparently unless we finish ahead of Chelsea and Liverpool then he's done nothing to warrant a new deal 😆

You can sit there and pretend that Mustafi, Sokratis, Kolasinac, Luiz, Xhaka, Bellerin, Elneny, Torreira and Ozil were already top four quality (and loved before Arteta took over apparently) for a team that hasn't finished in the top four since 2016 then I don't know what to say to you.

As for lowering standards, I'm the only one who actually predicted we'd finish 4th, some of you were talking (with all seriousness) about relegation.

"because of the squad Arteta has built" 😆 he's a fucking manager not a technical director. Plus we are currently the biggest spenders in the league. And knock it off I've said a bunch of times that I think the squad was CL level last season, it is this season and the only reason we were likely to miss out is the millstone of a manager we have.

I don't have to pretend those guys were top four quality all of them bar Elneny (Xhaka and Kola barely) have played plenty of CL in the past. What you seem hellbent on ignoring is no coach in the world has only top class players to work with. For you it's a built in excuse while guys like Conte and Klopp win league titles with Moses Alonso Milner and Henderson.

But yeah let's give the manager a new deal because he has spent close to 250m and has us now in contention for the CL spots.

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