Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 12 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

Anzac

Tambourine Man wrote:
His shortcoming will be Willian and David Luiz. If he has the balls to move them along in the summer and incorporate Saliba into the squad the fans will be more forgiving.

Another season of languishing in midtable whilst regularly fielding Willian and Luiz might be too much but if we can get Martinelli, Saliba etc. replacing those minutes the outlook will be different because realistically I see us between 7th and 11th again next season. There really is not much between us and the midfield at the moment.

IMO Luiz is the shortcoming becasue of his declining physical attributes impacting his timing and recovery leading to increased errors.
Whereas Willian will be his undoing if he both retains him and continues to select him when he continues to show no benefit.
As such Willian is not suited to the current style or roles, whereas last summer he was probably seen as a short term cover for Pepe,
however I'd also suggest Pepe is not suited to the style of play we saw v Leeds.

In terms of next season I don't think we will be as I expect us to have the squad better balanced and 'fit for purpose' in terms of shape and Artetaball.

awooga83

I'm still not sure about what progress we have made. Prior to the run of matches up to Leeds it was these games I was looking for us to get results in to show at had got some consistency and improved. I'm the end we suffered 2 defeats and 2 wins, that's not really good enough for me to draw conclusions on whether we have improved.

I think we are still too often going into matches basically 50/50 and hoping we nick the goal to win the game. But it's a risky strategy that often sees the luck/big moments go against you.

Arsenal and Arteta need to show a run of consistent good results to convince me that we are progressing.

Clrnc

goon wrote:
Leeds have out possessed(?) every team they've played this season according to Clrnc, including when they drew with Man City and lost 4-3 to Liverpool. There's no shame in it.

Yup. They outpossessed and outrun every opponent they faced so far. It's just Bielsa gungho football. Case in point they had freaking 60% possession at OT against United but lost 6 2. The key is just let them play their football and counter fast with direct balls.

Claudius

The possession obsession is a result of studio analysts using it crudely as a headline stat. What’s important is creating high quality chances. Possession usually aligns with that, but not necessarily.

The key with Leeds is look at their xG. They’re top 4 for and bottom 4 against. So it’s obvious you just need to get past their press and their defense will collapse. The key is knowing how to beat the press and then using the ball well upfield. We did that yesterday.

Qwiss

We were good yesterday but my worry is that if Bamfield hadn't missed his chance just before Auba scored we'd have likely lost the game. We seem to be 50-50 going into games like this and its exactly what you'd expect from a team in our position.

Gazza M

we do have vulnerabilities that you'd expect of a team sitting in 8th-10th position. it feels like every game can swing either way

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

Not one Arsenal fan could hand on heart say we were probably going to win the game once they got their second goal.

It's demons like that we need to banish.

Claudius

I felt fine but if you're 4-0 up and falter a bit, you always think of Newcastle. Check effin' Tiote

BWooley

Qwiss! wrote:
We were good yesterday but my worry is that if Bamfield hadn't missed his chance just before Auba scored we'd have likely lost the game. We seem to be 50-50 going into games like this and its exactly what you'd expect from a team in our position.

I don't disagree with the sentiment, but it's a tad harsh for this game. I don't think any team ever completely shuts out their opponents (unless you are Mourinho's first Chelsea team or maybe Simeone's Atletico). All games are about who takes their chances better and a header under pressure being directed at the GK is par for the course.

DKGooner

awooga83 wrote:
I'm still not sure about what progress we have made. Prior to the run of matches up to Leeds it was these games I was looking for us to get results in to show at had got some consistency and improved. I'm the end we suffered 2 defeats and 2 wins, that's not really good enough for me to draw conclusions on whether we have improved.

I think we are still too often going into matches basically 50/50 and hoping we nick the goal to win the game. But it's a risky strategy that often sees the luck/big moments go against you.

Arsenal and Arteta need to show a run of consistent good results to convince me that we are progressing.

Agree. While there have been tactical changes recently, whether forced or unforced, the improvements made have still only inspired us to mid-table. The next 7-8 fixtures will be more defining as to whether we are on an upward trajectory as we play more opposition in the top half.

Sicario

DK Gooner wrote:
awooga83 wrote:
I'm still not sure about what progress we have made. Prior to the run of matches up to Leeds it was these games I was looking for us to get results in to show at had got some consistency and improved. I'm the end we suffered 2 defeats and 2 wins, that's not really good enough for me to draw conclusions on whether we have improved.

I think we are still too often going into matches basically 50/50 and hoping we nick the goal to win the game. But it's a risky strategy that often sees the luck/big moments go against you.

Arsenal and Arteta need to show a run of consistent good results to convince me that we are progressing.

Agree. While there have been tactical changes recently, whether forced or unforced, the improvements made have still only inspired us to mid-table. The next 7-8 fixtures will be more defining as to whether we are on an upward trajectory as we play more opposition in the top half.

Our next two league games are our toughest we have for the remainder of the season.

We really need to try and win by a 2/3 goal margin in first leg v Benfica so that the second leg is not as critical.

Claudius

I felt Wolves 1st half was the best we'd played under Arteta up to that point. And then the Villa game was exceptionally pleasing in terms of our all around play. Those were 2 of the best performances I'd seen under Arteta up to that point. And then we get the first 60 minutes against Leeds which blows them both away.

What I like about Arteta is he has a clear overall strategy that he is following, and then within that he is trialling things to get improvements with fast turnaround cycles. It's how we've seen Saka go right, Pepe left, and now Aubameyang out top. He's testing, learning, evolving.

goon

You're never going to shut out a team like Leeds, United had scored 6 but Leeds could have scored 3 or 4 that day too. They beat Leicester 3-1 just a couple of weeks ago.

There seems to be a weird discrepancy between acceptance of where we are and expectations. Despite accepting that we're not there yet, we seem to expect us to beat Leeds in the same way you'd expect City to (who actually drew to Leeds), i.e. a routine 4 or 5-0 win. Part of that is probably down to the fact that we just lost two games consecutively and the run in November/December. If we can grind out better results more consistently we'll probably feel more at ease with the vulnerabilities. That probably goes for the team too.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
We were good yesterday but my worry is that if Bamfield hadn't missed his chance just before Auba scored we'd have likely lost the game. We seem to be 50-50 going into games like this and its exactly what you'd expect from a team in our position.

I'm not sure you can expect a whole lot more, cedric filling in at LB. Gabriel new to the league and getting over covid. ESR is having his first season in the prem. Odegaard prem debut and he's never played with this team before. Auba has been out and going through his stuff. And add to that we're developing a whole new attacking style. I think it's fair to say we've doing a pretty decent job in this one.

Qwiss

speedy wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
We were good yesterday but my worry is that if Bamfield hadn't missed his chance just before Auba scored we'd have likely lost the game. We seem to be 50-50 going into games like this and its exactly what you'd expect from a team in our position.

I'm not sure you can expect a whole lot more, cedric filling in at LB. Gabriel new to the league and getting over covid. ESR is having his first season in the prem. Odegaard prem debut and he's never played with this team before. Auba has been out and going through his stuff. And add to that we're developing a whole new attacking style. I think it's fair to say we've doing a pretty decent job in this one.

You make it sound like ESR, Gabriel and Odegaard are the reasons we are dropping points. 😆

Claudius

goon wrote:
You're never going to shut out a team like Leeds, United had scored 6 but Leeds could have scored 3 or 4 that day too. They beat Leicester 3-1 just a couple of weeks ago.

There seems to be a weird discrepancy between acceptance of where we are and expectations. Despite accepting that we're not there yet, we seem to expect us to beat Leeds in the same way you'd expect City to (who actually drew to Leeds), i.e. a routine 4 or 5-0 win. Part of that is probably down to the fact that we just lost two games consecutively and the run in November/December. If we can grind out better results more consistently we'll probably feel more at ease with the vulnerabilities. That probably goes for the team too.

I agree with everything you have written here, Goon. But at the same time, you're the one leading the charge for a top 4 finish. Disappointment is the gap between expectations and outcomes. Of course folks are going to be disappointed if they think this team is more than it is.

speedy

Qwiss! wrote:
speedy wrote:
I'm not sure you can expect a whole lot more, cedric filling in at LB. Gabriel new to the league and getting over covid. ESR is having his first season in the prem. Odegaard prem debut and he's never played with this team before. Auba has been out and going through his stuff. And add to that we're developing a whole new attacking style. I think it's fair to say we've doing a pretty decent job in this one.

You make it sound like ESR, Gabriel and Odegaard are the reasons we are dropping points. 😆

Ha yea it does a little. I just ment the slighty disjoined/ less polished preformance.

Coombs

Gazza M wrote:
we do have vulnerabilities that you'd expect of a team sitting in 8th-10th position. it feels like every game can swing either way

Yea, but that's just football at this point.

AAStyle

Arteta is learning and consequently it seems thag the team is improving. That is nice but if the guy cannot do better than 8th at the end of the season he should be sacked.
We deserve a top tier manager.

Bring Back Kerrea Gilbert

It's not that black and white when you can clearly see the improvements on the pitch are there at last.

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