Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?: Page 116 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Has Arteta Truly Turned it Around?

jones

Clrnc

😆 Gaz is spot on

QuincyAbeyie

Yeah, imagine if we signed Kounde and one of the "negative ones" said Zouma is better or if we signed Varane and one of them said he's over the top.

speedy

Gazza M wrote:
everything is playing out as it's supposed to apparently. slipping behind the likes of spurs, Liverpool and Leicester was unavoidable in hindsight. I've no issue if someone just prefers to accentuate the positives, but casting everyone else as being overly negative at the same time, especially in the wake of the disastrous season we've just had - that's also 'toxic'. toxic positivity is real people

I said finishing outside top 6 is sackable. I'd be fine about letting arteta go. But I'm also willing to admit he was handed a dressing room with a ton of problems. If you rebuild a squad you'll drop down the table a bit usually a few positions. Is the football boring yes. Almost everyone plays boring football now. Even France sat back against the Swiss.

What I don't to is endlessly twist every event and decision into a massive negative against arteta. Like people fuming we signed white just because arteta is the manager. The endless negativity is going on for a decade now. And were not exactly Newcastle are we?

The fans invited an owner in who promised not to invest and then moan about how tough it is to compete with doped up clubs.

We do need to do better. I'd sack arteta by Christmas if things aren't lookin better. But I'm the meantime I'm not hysterical about everything he does, every decision, every signing.

jones

speedy wrote:
Gazza M wrote:
everything is playing out as it's supposed to apparently. slipping behind the likes of spurs, Liverpool and Leicester was unavoidable in hindsight. I've no issue if someone just prefers to accentuate the positives, but casting everyone else as being overly negative at the same time, especially in the wake of the disastrous season we've just had - that's also 'toxic'. toxic positivity is real people

I said finishing outside top 6 is sackable. I'd be fine about letting arteta go. But I'm also willing to admit he was handed a dressing room with a ton of problems. If you rebuild a squad you'll drop down the table a bit usually a few positions.

Why is that? Plenty of clubs rebuild every single season and stay competitive. It's not exactly like you're playing with ten men while you replace one of your starters.

Is the football boring yes. Almost everyone plays boring football now. Even France sat back against the Swiss.

That's international football. There are loads of clubs playing exciting football.

What I don't to is endlessly twist every event and decision into a massive negative against arteta.

No you just twist every single criticism of Arteta into an example of someone being hysterical or needlessly endlessly negative.

The fans invited an owner in who promised not to invest and then moan about how tough it is to compete with doped up clubs.

I'd like to know which one of us here welcomed Kroenke into the club.

We do need to do better. I'd sack arteta by Christmas if things aren't lookin better. But I'm the meantime I'm not hysterical about everything he does, every decision, every signing.

Nobody here was hysterical about us signing Lokonga or Tavares, people are almost exclusively upbeat about the former. Nobody here was angry that we're letting Xhaka go, and plenty of people were happy with our improved record in big games even though it came at the cost of us playing dogshit football in almost every big game. Why should people close their eyes or mouths when they see Arteta fucking up though? You and Coombs endlessly suggest there's no one out there who could do better with the talent at our disposal, most others think there is. Why is it that pointing our failures out makes us negative nellies or worse fans than those who cheer Arteta on when they genuinely believe we're doing worse than we should?

Clrnc

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Yeah, imagine if we signed Kounde and one of the "negative ones" said Zouma is better or if we signed Varane and one of them said he's over the top.

Haha just realised what you did there

speedy

We had a lot more than changes than the average club has.

Most club play defensive counter attacking football now.

People welcomed kronke, I do remember names but I'm not calling people out on it you can look back and name them if you like.

I really don't, but if people call out that every player is worse under arteta. That's being hysterical. Eventually I'll point out that some players have improved. Then I'll be asked to list them. And then they'll say that's not because of arteta that's just form. As if he's only allowed take credit when players play poorly.

I'd never suggest nobody else could do better. I did suggest the top managers we approached the last couple of times turned us down. Because they don't like the odds. So when we do give someone a chance, they're probably going to need a good atmosphere to get something special together.

Klopp turned down United as they were to corporate they interviewed him first. He loved the feel around Liverpool.

Rohit

This allusion to the Arsenal fanbase as more negative and toxic than those of other clubs is just mindless, untrue and mentioning it again and again doesn't make that assertion right. It is utter tosh.

goon

To be fair it's probably natural for it to seem that way. Arsenal fans have among the biggest social media presence while AFTV is somewhat of a phenomenon. Both of those attract a lot of negativity and hysteria, but all it really means is our fans get more exposure.

speedy

Rohit wrote:
This allusion to the Arsenal fanbase as more negative and toxic than those of other clubs is just mindless, untrue and mentioning it again and again doesn't make that assertion right. It is utter tosh.

But on the things we can measure, we have mangers saying they can't pick certain players at home. And following on from that the next 2 managers talking a lot about needing the fans onside. So we know theirs a problem. The chances of the 3 of them all being mad man is very low. They've all talked a lot about needing the fans onside.

For me personally I don't watch AFTV, but I meet tons off people through work and find arsenal fans the most negative. And footballers I know have the same impression of arsenal fans. And that carrys over onto my impressions here. It's a lot of needless negativity.

And just to elaborate on that, Madrid fans are shit. Everyone knows this and I've mentioned it earlier. And they abused players endlessly and gotten what they deserve with bale not giving a fook. Hazard will probably go the same way. The impression in football is that arsenal fans are the shitest in England. It's doesn't mean Madrid don't have worse fans. And it doesn't mean other clubs have perfect fans.

jones

speedy wrote:
We had a lot more than changes than the average club has.

We really didn't. We kept all of the players we wanted to keep since Emery took over, do you realise how few clubs are able to say that? We're probably the only club in Europe that's not playing European football next season who's able to make that claim.

I'd never suggest nobody else could do better. I did suggest the top managers we approached the last couple of times turned us down. Because they don't like the odds. So when we do give someone a chance, they're probably going to need a good atmosphere to get something special together

You're again insinuating nobody who's not a top manager could do better. Top managers aren't born at the top they get there usually by doing great things with smaller clubs and then a big club takes a punt after seeing the potential. You're acting as if there's either Arteta or Guardiola/Klopp/etc when I'm saying it's exactly not that. Bayern just got Nagelsmann who got Leipzig to a CL semi, before that he used to be at Hoffenheim. PSG got Pochettino who used to coach Spurs and before them Southampton and Espanyol. Inter won the league with Conte who's a top manager but when Juve started their domination of Italian football with him they had just gotten him from Siena. There are endless examples of picking a coach from a smaller club or league and becoming successful with him, most successful developments begin like that, so no need to act as if we're stuck with Arteta because Guardiola and Klopp weren't available.

AAStyle

Even if Arteta is going to be the next zidane in, say, 4 years, he shouldnt be here now. This is not a micky mouse sunday league club. No low tier coach should be allowed at Arsenal. Never.

Coombs

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Yeah, imagine if we signed Kounde and one of the "negative ones" said Zouma is better or if we signed Varane and one of them said he's over the top.

Imagine if a bunch of knobs trolled around an Arsenal forum parroting each other making snide remarks in every thread. It'd be maddening.

QuincyAbeyie

Pot, meet kettle.

Big Willie

goon wrote:
To be fair it's probably natural for it to seem that way. Arsenal fans have among the biggest social media presence while AFTV is somewhat of a phenomenon. Both of those attract a lot of negativity and hysteria, but all it really means is our fans get more exposure.

Whilst the social media side of things is true, most opposition fans I know always seem to think Arsenal are the most deluded fans always thinking next year we'll win the league or whatever.

I have to say I doesn't feel like it when I talk to other Arsenal fans or when I see stuff online but our opposition fans believe we are. Even more deluded than Liverpool fans, who I always couldn't stand because of their delusions.

RC8

For the record I wanted Usmanov and said all along that Kroenke was a far worse problem than Wenger. I also predicted we'd spend a few years in the absolute wilderness if Arsene did leave, as the calibre of Arsenal players had been declining for a while and people's expectations weren't adjusting accordingly.

I am being completely honest in saying that ever since Xhaka has been in this team, if I were a manager I would run in the opposite direction to this squad. That is, I would abstain from managing Arsenal if only career and footballing reasons are considered.

Hence my very low expectations for Wenger, Emery, and Arteta. On that note, I am more concerned about Edu than Mikel, even if we could also prospectively improve over the latter.

Anzac

Qwiss! wrote:
You have your cause and effect backwards there. Wenger didn't fail because fans booed, fans booed when
failed. Whats more they allowed him to fail for over a decade years before they took it out on him. No other top sides fans would have shown that level of patience.

It used to drive Mourinho mad the amount of leeway AW was given by both the club and supporters.

EDIT - another point with this is I wonder if because the supporters were quiet & patient for so long, that they are now more vocal and have less patience as none of the issues in AW's last years have been directly dealt with until now, let alone rectified. The fan base reached it's boiling point under AW, and the heat/issues remain so as to keep them at the same/similar levels of discontentment, made worse by the collapse of the structure put in place off the pitch to replace AW, let alone our continued decay on the pitch in terms of the quality of the team, managers and our play.

Anzac

Historically we were one of the first clubs to have the 'Manager as God' in terms of having control of all aspects of the football operation, and we are one of the last to let that system go. It started with Chapman after Norris was banned for life and we're still doing it now with a rookie manager supported by a rookie TD/GM. IMO even if they are both the right men for the job it is more likely to take both longer to re-focus the club than needs be, and more money.

speedy

Anzac wrote:
Qwiss! wrote:
You have your cause and effect backwards there. Wenger didn't fail because fans booed, fans booed when
failed. Whats more they allowed him to fail for over a decade years before they took it out on him. No other top sides fans would have shown that level of patience.

It used to drive Mourinho mad the amount of leeway AW was given by both the club and supporters.

I see, and what about when he went to spurs who had a very good squad when he arrived but weren't a mega club? What kind of leeway did he expect then?

He was clearly poking our fans and manager with a stick. It was in his interest to help drive a wedge between Wenger an fans. Like Putin funding Brexit Facebook posts.

Shady

Most Arsenal fans defended Wenger and were outraged at Mourinho's criticisms of him. He didn't drive a wedge between manager and fans at all.

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