Arsenal exits Jan 2022: Page 90 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal exits Jan 2022

tazmania

I don't understand how we could be losing xhaka to Roma for 15 million when Roma just signed rui Patricio for 13. That's a joke

Anzac

jones wrote:
I hope a couple of months from now Arteta will be someone else's problem.

Should have been done at the end of last season, and before we spend any money on a rebuild.
The UEL S/F loss should have been the tipping point, and the lack of UEFA football should have been the final nail.
Had we a manager with a clear identity then I don't think Buendia joins Villa.

HomeSteak

Exclusive / Sport : Inter have reached a personal agreement in principle with Bellerin.The conditions need to be agreed

Arsenal are looking for a transfer of about 20 - 25 million but Inter wants a loan with an option to buy

https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/mercado-fichajes/inter-reactiva-bellerin-11883124

They just got 80 mil for Hakimi and are gonna try to offer us a loan and probably 7 mil after 😆

Funny enough, I'm ready to cut my holiday short to drive him there

Clrnc

goon wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
Too much nonsense made of Guendouzi. He behaved like a child when he saw someone intentionally injured his teammate, and then we banished him. It wasn't even that bad. The orick Maupay deserved it

Had little to do with what he did to Maypay and more to do with that fact that he refused to repent and acknowledge that he was wrong, as reported by France Football at the time.

A 19yr old takes on the manager (and David Luiz) and effectively tells them to fuck off, all this after having a bust up with Sokratis and getting into an argument with Arteta once before. At best you could argue Arteta should have avoided bringing it to a head like that, but make no mistake, the kid is a brat of the highest order.

Yes, the entire incident was because he abused Maupay verbally on the pitch and pushed him at the final whistle. He was told to apologise for that action which he refused. Then he escalated to him being banished. It's such a small thing, just talk to the player and tell him he shouldn't be like this even though he is angry at that cunt.

jones

Klaus wrote:
I think there's no doubt we would have received a better fee for Guendouzi if we hadn't been airing our dirty laundry in public. He's become a tainted asset now. The way he's been ostracized might well be because of an underlying issue with Arteta when it comes to young players who don't behave impeccably too; I'd say it's even likely, and generally I think that will end up hurting us more than it's helping.

Having said all that though, sometimes you just need to put your foot down. My biggest gripe with Guendouzi is that, in addition to working up a pretty extensive track record at such a young age, he's also a bullshit footballer. And I don't mean that in the sense that he lacks talent, but he absolutely lacks brains, and I reckon it's mirrored in his impulsive personality.

He's genuinely one of the slowest and least aware players I've ever seen on the turn, which is a bit unfortunate when you're playing a position where it's literally your job to turn and move the ball between two banks of players while being aware of your surroundings. These are not things you're supposed to struggle with if you make it to this level. The fact that he does implies that he doesn't have the necessary drive to improve. They are so basic that there's no way someone hasn't tried to teach him. He just lacks the application, and the ability to take on advice. It's why he loves someone like Emery, who is notorious for being soft on troublemakers and gave him plenty of chances despite his flaws, and consequently struggles to function with everyone else.

I will be pleased to see the back of him, and if there was one thing about Arsenal that I could undo from the past few years, putting so many minutes into his development would be high on my list. We've produced plenty of academy players who would have been better served by being given those minutes. Maybe he'll wake up one day and start taking things seriously, but I don't want to wait for years to find out. Maybe he actually has a strong case of undiagnosed ADHD, in which case I'd be more sympathetic, but it would also make me want to keep him even less.

What happens if the next player who draws Arteta's ire is someone you rate higher than Guendouzi? I know you're not the biggest fan of Pepe either but there's another player who nobody would have been surprised to see angle for a move after being repeatedly benched for fucking Willian. Had we sold him for 20m I'm sure we'd have some here who'd blame him for being not resilient enough or some other horseshit.

Unlike what speedy seems to think most of us aren't calling for the club to lie down and take it up the arse when a player pipes up. A manager's job is to get his players to play the best footy they can, that includes coaching of how to trap a ball, how to move without it just as well as to get the player motivated to give 100% in training and on matchdays and to develop a healthy aggression and will to win. There are really no two opinions here, we're not talking about someone who had to be picked up from prison for assault, even if he were dishing out verbal abuse to Maupay's mum and refused to apologise for it initially Arteta's literally his boss - if anyone thinks the only recourse from this situation was this clusterfuck they should read the job description for a manager again.

Rohit

I always believe that the manager's job with youngsters especially, is to mould the player and also mould the human. Wenger did that exceedingly well. I am not sure whether Guendouzi is worth it, I never took keenly to the player but unless he is absolutely incorrigible as a person, it's a failure on Arteta's part. He is inexperienced and will improve in this aspect, more so when the player is really important to the team, but right now from the outside it does seem like some issues are personal.

speedy

Douzi has been a headache everywhere. He's had his previous coaches come out and clearly explain this. It's a consistent attitude problem. Not a maupay issue.

Like a pato or a Ben arfa no manger actually sorts them out. They just fall to a level where their dickheadness might be worth putting up with. But then they move clubs every year because the manger realises they're a net negative to the team. And managers and fans with romantic ideas continue to wishlist them or sign them and then regret it.

Rohit

He had issues when he was 18, 19 and 20. Mbappe by all accounts has issues. He is just worth it and even then there will be managers who take it upon themselves to work it out with a decently talented kid. His past issues also have no relevance at Arsenal, else we wouldn't have signed him in the first place. It's the incident at hand that needs scrutiny not what he did at previous clubs. It's not beyond possible that he will mature and learn from this.

Clrnc

And to be fair to him he had no real problems at Hertha. He had only ever been dropped by the 2nd Lorient coach for the last 3 months of his career due to a half time row. His previous lorient manager was very complimentary of him, like Emery.

Not every manager who has coached Guendouzi has had a problem with his attitude. He has shone for France at U-18, U-19 and U-20 level after turning down the chance to play for Morocco. Ripoll, who is now coach of the France U-21s, says that he never would have picked Guendouzi for Lorient if his attitude was wrong, and was very complimentary about his “passion” for football. He just has to feel loved and trusted by managers, Ripoll says, and to channel his emotion the right way.

Sample size is small but I doubt he is a Ben Arfa.

jones

I stated in the past that Hertha coach Dardai spoke highly of him. When he said he played like he was a teenager that was because he lost the ball in the box, not because of his attitude - the latter to this day all Berlin fans are raving about.

He's never had any issues with Emery either. Sylvain Ripoll clearly rates him and made him captain of the U21s a team with Upamecano Aouar Edouard etc. This notion that he fell out with everyone is just not true.

Don Pacifico

Clrnc wrote:
And to be fair to him he had no real problems at Hertha. He had only ever been dropped by the 2nd Lorient coach for the last 3 months of his career due to a half time row. His previous lorient manager was very complimentary of him, like Emery.

What about these problems?

Clrnc wrote:
Guendouzi had a big fight with Mathews Cunha yesterday had to be seperated by teammates as Hertha lost again and is imploding badly.

Clrnc wrote:
The Hertha manager made an important point. He says Guendouzi keep playing for fouls like these too in training and he never once blew for a foul just to teach him not to do that.

Clrnc wrote:

Think he has no choice but to come back and admit his mistake, fight for his place.

jones

I think I mentioned it at the time but those tweets are embellished and fabricated news or outright lies. The manager did criticise him once for losing the ball in the box which led to a goal, big deal. The only other truth in there was that Hertha imploded with Guendouzi being one of maybe three players to be able to keep their head high.

Klaus

jones wrote:
What happens if the next player who draws Arteta's ire is someone you rate higher than Guendouzi? I know you're not the biggest fan of Pepe either but there's another player who nobody would have been surprised to see angle for a move after being repeatedly benched for fucking Willian. Had we sold him for 20m I'm sure we'd have some here who'd blame him for being not resilient enough or some other horseshit.

Yes, I wrote that Arteta's stubbornness when it comes to these players that don't fit in seamlessly in his narrow view is probably going to cost us heavily in the long run. I like Pepe even though he pisses me off sometimes and I don't think we've treated him right, nor are we doing right by Saliba right now.

In the case of Guendouzi I just can't be bothered to get upset though. He's had issues everywhere with almost everyone and he's not talented enough to be worth that trouble. He needed to leave in my opinion and now he's going. We shaved a bit of value off by leaking things about him, covid and Doozi himself took care of the rest. It is what it is.

mentalvortex

Klaus wrote:
jones wrote:
What happens if the next player who draws Arteta's ire is someone you rate higher than Guendouzi? I know you're not the biggest fan of Pepe either but there's another player who nobody would have been surprised to see angle for a move after being repeatedly benched for fucking Willian. Had we sold him for 20m I'm sure we'd have some here who'd blame him for being not resilient enough or some other horseshit.

Yes, I wrote that Arteta's stubbornness when it comes to these players that don't fit in seamlessly in his narrow view is probably going to cost us heavily in the long run. I like Pepe even though he pisses me off sometimes and I don't think we've treated him right, nor are we doing right by Saliba right now.

In the case of Guendouzi I just can't be bothered to get upset though. He's had issues everywhere with almost everyone and he's not talented enough to be worth that trouble. He needed to leave in my opinion and now he's going. We shaved a bit of value off by leaking things about him, covid and Doozi himself took care of the rest. It is what it is.

There must be a reason apart from Aretea/Edu why no other club than Marseille/Benfica were in for Guendouzi.

goon

jones wrote:
What happens if the next player who draws Arteta's ire is someone you rate higher than Guendouzi? I know you're not the biggest fan of Pepe either but there's another player who nobody would have been surprised to see angle for a move after being repeatedly benched for fucking Willian. Had we sold him for 20m I'm sure we'd have some here who'd blame him for being not resilient enough or some other horseshit.

I love the irony in you blaming Arteta for something that hasn't happened all the while showing dismay for people blaming Pepe in that scenario 😆

FWIW I share similar concerns. Feels like Arteta put's significantly more weight in his ideas, whether it's tactics, attitude etc. than talent and ability. Nothing wrong with having a demanding environment, but ultimately you need to recognise it's the talent on the pitch that wins you games. I agree with Klaus, Guendouzi simply isn't worth it, but his willingness to drop Pepe and refusal to even look at Saliba or Nelson is more concerning.

Clrnc

Don Pacifico wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
And to be fair to him he had no real problems at Hertha. He had only ever been dropped by the 2nd Lorient coach for the last 3 months of his career due to a half time row. His previous lorient manager was very complimentary of him, like Emery.

What about these problems?

Jones mentioned it that time he saw German papers all didn't mention that. Looks like sport witness exaggerated it or mistranslated, he was back in the Hertha team the next week no problems.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
Yes, the entire incident was because he abused Maupay verbally on the pitch and pushed him at the final whistle. He was told to apologise for that action which he refused. Then he escalated to him being banished. It's such a small thing, just talk to the player and tell him he shouldn't be like this even though he is angry at that cunt.

A ridiculous thing to tell a player to apologise for.

Coombs

At this point, we're just making martyrs out of every player Arteta doesn't like or rate. It's nothing to do with the players themselves. Guendouzi was a destabilizing force on and off the pitch. He started brightly, but ended up turning our midfield into a total circus. He had some great moments, but also cost us time and again. He also displayed a remarkable level of unearned arrogance, which was in turns endearing and enraging. Many of you accuse Arteta of exactly the same things. So, what gives? Maybe it's all a bit more nuanced than "manager-in" or "manager-out", and not every single thing that happens at Arsenal needs to be discussed in that framework.

mentalvortex has it right, I'd imagine. Other clubs tell you more about the players you've got than you can necessarily see from the inside.

Don Pacifico

Clrnc wrote:
Don Pacifico wrote:
What about these problems?

Jones mentioned it that time he saw German papers all didn't mention that. Looks like sport witness exaggerated it or mistranslated, he was back in the Hertha team the next week no problems.

That's fine - the point I was more trying to make is (a) we can all be quick to judge based on headlines shared on the internet and (b) sometimes the facts/recollection of events can be blurred to suit whatever narrative we're trying to construct at any given point in time - in this case Arteta has managed Guendouzi poorly.

As I said before, can appreciate that some people don't rate Arteta's man management but Guendouzi is not the hill to die on - ordinary player with character flaws.

Clrnc

I rate him, I find that it's a waste we are letting a good talent go for peanuts. A good manager can nurture a very good player out of him, probably better than Rabiot IMO despite his current flaws.

Furthermore, the point I was making is that young player always have flaws, deserve patience and chance not immediate banishment. That has got nothing to do with Arteta, just a general point about young players. And I don't believe he is a Ben Arfa, so I went to dig his history and found that he only ever had serious problems with Landreau his 2nd lorient coach. There's no narrative to be constructed, I was merely passing the news from sport_witness that apparently he caused troubles at Hertha which turned out to be untrue anyway.

It's also weird whenever we try to be objective and judge that maybe it's not always the players fault, that they are troublemakers or don't give a damn in training, we are making Matyr out of them when the argument is that if our manager don't rate them they must surely be attitude problem, shit behaviour, or not working hard in training. Really unfair accusations. Truth is somewhere in the middle.

« Previous Page Next Page »