Arsenal exits Jan 2022: Page 64 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal exits Jan 2022

goon

I've always said I didn't mind Xhaka's mentality off the pitch, the only problem is it doesn't suit the player on it.

jones

goon wrote:
Clrnc wrote:
Exactly.

Claude, you are not understanding the argument again. I think it's not unfair to say Arteta is a cautious manager who always prefers experience over youth whenever he can. His many decisions and team selection speak volume. Whatever else you are arguing is not relevant to this discussion, as well as your stats about how Saka gets a lot of minutes etc. They are not representative of the full circumstances. People even forget that Saka didn't even start in the first 2 of our 3 fixtures when we are playing 352, he only came in as a LWB when AMN was dropped.

When we talk about blooding youngsters, it is giving minutes and chances to players not the finished article and bringing them through from the youth team. Like what Emery did with Guendouzi, Willock, AMN, Nelson, Nketiah etc. Not preferring Elneny, Cedric, Willian etc.

My favorite shifting goalposts and mind boggling defence is when he keep breaking Pepe momentum when he was dropped after good performances to start Willian, but now it became that he made Pepe the player he is. 😆

Emery gave mins to Mkhi over Nelson, Lichtsteiner over AMN and loaned out Eddie, who Arteta recalled and handed a total of 30 league appearances including a handful of starts despite it being a position with 2 high profile strikers ahead of him. And if we're talking about Pepe too, both Emery and Freddie benched him repeatedly.

Mkhitaryan over Nelson is and was a no brainer, he was much better than him in 2018 and still is today. Nelson hasn't taken any of the chances he was given to cement a starting spot.
Lichtsteiner over AMN however is a blatant lie, AMN broke his leg on the opening day that season and missed months after and still got more minutes than Lichtsteiner, who got mostly cup games and even played centre back with AMN at times. I'm not even sure if you're just arguing for the sake of it or you actually believe that Arteta gave our youngsters more chances than Emery did.

Qwiss

Clrnc wrote:
My favorite shifting goalposts and mind boggling defence is when he keep breaking Pepe momentum when he was dropped after good performances to start Willian, but now it became that he made Pepe the player he is. 😆

He signed Willian to keep Pepe out of the side and they've decided it was genius management 😆

Rohit

goon wrote:
I've always said I didn't mind Xhaka's mentality off the pitch, the only problem is it doesn't suit the player on it.

I want to wish him well. I wish he just leaves quietly.

Claudius

FEBravo wrote:
Is he really that deluded? So he thinks he played really well and the team let him down?

He’s right and wrong.

Xhaka had a good season. From January when we had ESR, Odegaard and Partey integrated, Xhaka was one the best players in the team. He had less to do and could focus on midfield general activities. Probably his best stretch as an Arsenal player.

The problem is when Xhaka is one of your best players it exposes the dearth of quality in your team. He is a good player but not a great one. This is supported by us sending 4 players to Euro 2020 when our rivals are each sending a dozen. We have a low quality squad.

Qwiss

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Selling Bellerin would've been the ideal thing to do last summer.

We went into the season with Bellerin, Cedric, AMN and an injured Chambers for right back. We should have moved on one of them last summer.

Jed

Anzac wrote:
HomeSteak wrote:

This should go down well with our fan base

Deluded fucker - how many points did he cost us either directly through errors leading to goals, or indirectly by putting us under pressure the created a turn over for the opposition to score in this season alone.

It's a slap in the face for both Arteta and the players = don't let the door hit you on your way out c*nt.

Arteta talked this loser into staying when he’d already agreed terms with Hertha Berlin. He deserves everything that comes his way.

Anzac

Claudius wrote:
FEBravo wrote:
Is he really that deluded? So he thinks he played really well and the team let him down?

He’s right and wrong.

Xhaka had a good season. From January when we had ESR, Odegaard and Partey integrated, Xhaka was one the best players in the team. He had less to do and could focus on midfield general activities. Probably his best stretch as an Arsenal player.

The problem is when Xhaka is one of your best players it exposes the dearth of quality in your team. He is a good player but not a great one. This is supported by us sending 4 players to Euro 2020 when our rivals are each sending a dozen. We have a low quality squad.

Xhaka plays to himself as opposed to the team. He does what he considers to be 'the right thing' in terms of his own 'risk adverse' decision making, rather than what the moment/opportunity may 'need'.
IMO he is possibly the single biggest influence (due to his position and want to dictate play), as to why our high priced attack has failed since Giroud was sold and replaced by Lacazette and then PEA.

Anzac

Jed wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Deluded fucker - how many points did he cost us either directly through errors leading to goals, or indirectly by putting us under pressure the created a turn over for the opposition to score in this season alone.

It's a slap in the face for both Arteta and the players = don't let the door hit you on your way out c*nt.

Arteta talked this loser into staying when he’d already agreed terms with Hertha Berlin. He deserves everything that comes his way.

Fair enough & I'd even go so far as to consider the comments from Xhaka (after the faith/trust Arteta showed to bring him back into the team after his strop), as being an example of poor judgement by Arteta and another reason for him to be replaced by someone more experienced. Sometimes of it looks, walks and talks like a duck then that it simply what it is and not some swan in hiding.

Clrnc

Qwiss! wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Selling Bellerin would've been the ideal thing to do last summer.

We went into the season with Bellerin, Cedric, AMN and an injured Chambers for right back. We should have moved on one of them last summer.

The fact that we even signed Cedric after the 6 months loan and gave him a 4 year contract is terrible management. And all of us predicted that along with Willian

goon

jones wrote:
goon wrote:
Emery gave mins to Mkhi over Nelson, Lichtsteiner over AMN and loaned out Eddie, who Arteta recalled and handed a total of 30 league appearances including a handful of starts despite it being a position with 2 high profile strikers ahead of him. And if we're talking about Pepe too, both Emery and Freddie benched him repeatedly.

Mkhitaryan over Nelson is and was a no brainer, he was much better than him in 2018 and still is today. Nelson hasn't taken any of the chances he was given to cement a starting spot.
Lichtsteiner over AMN however is a blatant lie, AMN broke his leg on the opening day that season and missed months after and still got more minutes than Lichtsteiner, who got mostly cup games and even played centre back with AMN at times. I'm not even sure if you're just arguing for the sake of it or you actually believe that Arteta gave our youngsters more chances than Emery did.

I honestly couldn't give a damn who wins the top trumps of giving young players mins. All managers give mins to those they deem worthy of it, that was my point. The narrative painted that Emery loved youngsters and played them unconditionally is patently false. He had a good group of youngsters breaking through and gave them an appropriate amount of mins, mainly in the cups. Arteta has largely continued playing them with an increasing number of mins in the league. It's so unextraordinary I can't believe it's being discussed.

Remember how Arteta was being blamed for Balogun leaving because he refused to give him mins? All those guys have gone quiet now and are probably the same ones actively asking us to sign a centre forward this window.

GooneriC

On Balogun , kid signs a new deal and we have nothing meaningful to play for towards the end of the season and he does not get a single minute . Not even a place in the squad , whats that about?

Claudius

goon wrote:
jones wrote:
Mkhitaryan over Nelson is and was a no brainer, he was much better than him in 2018 and still is today. Nelson hasn't taken any of the chances he was given to cement a starting spot.
Lichtsteiner over AMN however is a blatant lie, AMN broke his leg on the opening day that season and missed months after and still got more minutes than Lichtsteiner, who got mostly cup games and even played centre back with AMN at times. I'm not even sure if you're just arguing for the sake of it or you actually believe that Arteta gave our youngsters more chances than Emery did.

I honestly couldn't give a damn who wins the top trumps of giving young players mins. All managers give mins to those they deem worthy of it, that was my point. The narrative painted that Emery loved youngsters and played them unconditionally is patently false. He had a good group of youngsters breaking through and gave them an appropriate amount of mins, mainly in the cups. Arteta has largely continued playing them with an increasing number of mins in the league. It's so unextraordinary I can't believe it's being discussed.

Remember how Arteta was being blamed for Balogun leaving because he refused to give him mins? All those guys have gone quiet now and are probably the same ones actively asking us to sign a centre forward this window.

It is fake news, Goon.
People must just say “we hate Arteta and can’t approve of a thing he does” the same way they treat Xhaka. Let’s just be transparent. Would be much better.

Gazza M

he makes it hard to approve of the things he does when there's mounting evidence that his decisions are hamfisted. people want the guy to be a success, there's no conspiracy against the guy

Rohit

Yep. Heart wants him to really succeed owing to the fondness for him when he was a player. I still don't want him to go although I am sure his lack of experience will continue to cost us. I just wish he was more brave, that's all. I feel like he is too conservative in a lot of aspects.

Clrnc

Rohit wrote:
Yep. Heart wants him to really succeed owing to the fondness for him when he was a player. I still don't want him to go although I am sure his lack of experience will continue to cost us. I just wish he was more brave, that's all. I feel like he is too conservative in a lot of aspects.

It's just that. He's a conservative safety first guy. I don't understand why that is controversial

Ray

GooneriC wrote:
On Balogun , kid signs a new deal and we have nothing meaningful to play for towards the end of the season and he does not get a single minute . Not even a place in the squad , whats that about?

Arteta's been here what almost two years now, which young player has he given a PL debut to? Can't think of anyone. Emery gave debut's to Saka, Martinelli, Douzi. Even Wenger used to give these guys a few games here and there when we were competing for top 4. Arteta can't even do that when we're finishing outside Europa league spots.

Claudius

Maybe because we graduated everyone worthwhile. Were you paying attention while our u23 team almost got relegated this season?

goon

Why does it matter who gave them the starts though? I mean he gave ESR his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. PL start, why does Freddie using him once 12 months ago mean that doesn't count as giving a young player a go?

Arteta definitely lacks the enthusiasm Wenger had to giving young kids a run out, but if either of those two run against the norm then it's Arsene. Go and have a look at how much time academy products get at other clubs.

Qwiss

Claudius wrote:
Maybe because we graduated everyone worthwhile. Were you paying attention while our u23 team almost got relegated this season?

Don't be disingenuous, no one was asking for Cotteral, Medley and Sheaf to be playing for the first team.

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