Arsenal exits Jan 2022: Page 21 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal exits Jan 2022

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
Anzac wrote:
Wrong thread perhaps but is this really still a thing?

We're 10th in the table by February, Anzac.

There has been a noticeable improvement over the last month and I've been happy to see it, but it's basically been our first run of good football since he took over. Yes, I'd say it's still a 'thing'. If this qualifies as remarkable then I don't see how you could possibly have had an issue with anything that Wenger ever did, because his worst was still three tiers better than anything we've seen since he left.

With all due respect now you are the one making shit up IMO.

We have seen glimpses / performances under both Emery and Arteta that were as good as anything in AW's later years.
Further to that the team now seems to have more purpose and intent tactically than anything in AW's last seasons that wasn't reliant upon having enough players of individual quality.
Lastly many of the issues post AW originated from both him and the club, and were inherited by both Emery and Arteta up to and including this current season, and are still yet not completely rectified.

IMO the current form since Boxing Day IS remarkable because of these same obstacles that have plagued the last 3 managers and administrations over the past 5+ seasons,
and not the least because at the same time Arteta is a rookie and is still learning on the job.
As such it has taken the likes of LFC, MC, CFC & MU both more managers, time and money to get themselves on track.
We are now within 1 win of going ahead of 2 of the rest of the big6 that both finished above us last season, and who have both(?) topped the table this season.

Again it's NOT perfect as we are still playing catch-up from our slump, but given the above context (and that of COVID & other impacts on this season re injuries etc), we are currently chalk and cheese to where we were at that time.
That is not to say if it all goes to shit again that Arteta should be immune to any criticisms or questions as to his suitability, but again in context regards to cause and effect.

Klaus

I'm sorry Anzac but there's no way I'm going to respond to all that, let alone read it.

Klaus

goon wrote:
In fairness I've been surprised by the tone you've taken with Arteta too at times, probably more so with you than anyone else because as Quincy says, I used to associate you as being one of his bigger fans as a player here.

Being a good player is not the same thing as being a good manager though, just ask Henry.

All I can say is that I was really hoping that Arteta would be better than he's been so far, but - the occasional game aside - up until the turn of the year our football was complete trash. There's no need to elaborate on that really, because most people below 50 agree that it's been some of the most horrid stuff they've seen Arsenal play. A few games of improvement that have taken us from 16th to 10th is a start, but I'm expecting a lot more and I don't think that's unreasonable at all. We've also played mostly notoriously weak teams that anyone except the relegaton fodder would have expected to get a good haul against. The draw against United yesterday was another indication that we're perhaps moving in the right direction, but he still has everything to prove.

Anzac

Klaus wrote:
I'm sorry Anzac but there's no way I'm going to respond to all that, let alone read it.

😆 ;D 8)

Klaus

🙂 Sorry mate, but we should revisit the discussion in the Arteta thread instead at some point.

goon

Klaus wrote:
goon wrote:
In fairness I've been surprised by the tone you've taken with Arteta too at times, probably more so with you than anyone else because as Quincy says, I used to associate you as being one of his bigger fans as a player here.

Being a good player is not the same thing as being a good manager though, just ask Henry.

All I can say is that I was really hoping that Arteta would be better than he's been so far, but - the occasional game aside - up until the turn of the year our football was complete trash. There's no need to elaborate on that really, because most people below 50 agree that it's been some of the worst stuff they've seen Arsenal play. A few games of improvement that has taken us from 16th to 10th is a start, but I'm expecting a lot more and I don't think that's unreasonable at all. We've also played mostly notoriously weak teams that anyone except the relegaton fodder would have expected to get a good haul against. The result yesterday was another indication that we're maybe improving further, but he has everything to prove.

Yeah, I get it, I wasn't questioning the rationale behind wanting him our or still being doubtful, just the lack of love. But your point about Thierry is a good one, pretty sure I'd resent him fast. Hell I resent his management style managing other teams.

I guess my backing of Arteta had nothing to do with him being a former player either, it was and still is a gut feeling (based on observations) that he knows what he's doing.

Bosscielny

Klaus wrote:
Bosscielny wrote:
A few of you guys might want to considering getting your heads around supporting Arteta. Because he’s not going anywhere anytime soon. It’ll be a long way back for some of you if/when he gets things turned around.

That is not how this works. He needs to prove that he's worth backing and so far he hasn't done that. The idea that anyone would have some kind of personal issue with him (his hair's too thick? his voice too whiny?) if he became successful is ridiculous. It's because he isn't doing well that people question him. You can think that's unfair all you want according to whatever subjective criteria you've dreamed up, but there's no need to make shit up.

We’re obviously looking for different things from him. You’ve decided that results trump everything, or you may have taken into account the situation he came into. I saw a club that had been mismanaged for 10+ years and am prepared to give him, as a rookie manager, a bit of time to get things turned around. If he hadn’t won the FA cup, or if his big summer signing hadn’t missed the first half of the season, or if we were still getting embarrassed by every big side we played then i probably wouldn’t be giving him as much leash. But he came into a tough spot and i’ve seen enough from him so far to believe that he deserves a real chance at getting us going again.

I don’t think your issues with him are personal, as Quincy said, i remember you being right behind him as player so i don’t think you’ve got anything against him as a person. Probably worth saying that you did call Emery a vampire from time to time so i don’t particularly think you’re above it either.

I do think you and a few others are overly critical of him and the club, but that’s your right. But if you say something i don’t agree with then i’ll probably say something, especially if it’s as ridiculous as holding onto a 23 year old who has never nailed down a spot because you hope we’ll have a new manager next season who can unlock whatever three managers haven’t been able to.

Klaus

Bosscielny wrote:
I don’t think your issues with him are personal, as Quincy said, i remember you being right behind him as player so i don’t think you’ve got anything against him as a person. Probably worth saying that you did call Emery a vampire from time to time so i don’t particularly think you’re above it either.

I've called Emery a lot of things. I don't believe vampire was ever one of them but I could be mistaken. The rest is fair enough I think. We're interpreting things a bit differently which is no big deal really. Ultimately what we're doing is either going to prove to be good enough or it won't be. The only opinions that aren't worth anything are those that can't change.

I will say that I can stand not winning another league trophy ever again, but I can't stand being both uncompetitive and awful. To me football is about entertainment and clubs should have values. They aren't corporations, they should be about something more than profits. I don't like the direction Arsenal has taken lately in either of those regards. I really couldn't care less if we maximise the monetary value by selling off our own talents; players aren't stocks. We are more than capable of making the improvements we need without exchanging all our Iwobis and Maitland-Nileses for Willians and Cedrics. That difference might be moot to some people and that's fine, but to me it's not.

Bosscielny

I can get behind all of that. I will say though, when it comes to being competitive and boring, that I think our results against the big teams so far, not that they’ve been out of this world, have lead me to think we’re headed in the right direction. He’s been here 13ish months and already he’s beaten United twice, Liverpool twice...ish, Chelsea twice and City. Losing to scrubs for half a season was discouraging, but those sorts of results are easier to turn around than it is to convince me that we’re not going to get our asses handed to us every time we play a top team, which had been the case for me since 2009.

Unsurprisingly I think there’s hope surrounding how exciting our play can be. We’ve played some really nice stuff since ESR has been fit enough to string a few games in a row, since Saka has moved to RW and since Partey has come back in. He’s been working with a team that has needed turning over since Wenger, so I’m happy to give him the opportunity to see what he can do with players that will allow him to play the way i’m hoping he wants to play.

Clrnc

goon wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Being a good player is not the same thing as being a good manager though, just ask Henry.

All I can say is that I was really hoping that Arteta would be better than he's been so far, but - the occasional game aside - up until the turn of the year our football was complete trash. There's no need to elaborate on that really, because most people below 50 agree that it's been some of the worst stuff they've seen Arsenal play. A few games of improvement that has taken us from 16th to 10th is a start, but I'm expecting a lot more and I don't think that's unreasonable at all. We've also played mostly notoriously weak teams that anyone except the relegaton fodder would have expected to get a good haul against. The result yesterday was another indication that we're maybe improving further, but he has everything to prove.

Yeah, I get it, I wasn't questioning the rationale behind wanting him our or still being doubtful, just the lack of love. But your point about Thierry is a good one, pretty sure I'd resent him fast. Hell I resent his management style managing other teams.

I guess my backing of Arteta had nothing to do with him being a former player either, it was and still is a gut feeling (based on observations) that he knows what he's doing.

Pretty sure you sort of gave up on him too during that hopeless run in dec that broke all losing records in our club history 😆

HomeSteak

I would prefer Nelson to get a loan in England as well. Still, would be great if we get all 3 done, and they get time on the pitch untill the summer.

QuincyAbeyie

According to The Athletic, Leicester want an option to buy while Arsenal want them to have an obligation. Sad if true.

Ray

England international tax should get us £25m - £30m at least. Anything less than that and it’s pointless adding an obligation to buy.

HomeSteak

This might get done.

We moved him from Swindon to Charlton, still League One but a better team.

ohboy

Getting anything for Mustafi would be great

I wonder if we can sneak in a left back

goon

Hopefully we can get £20m plus overall for AMN.

Sicario

According to Sky Sports News (are they even relevant anymore?) we don’t want to loan/sell AMN to Leicester as we view them as our rivals.

Willock close to joining Newcastle on - loan. Think that’s a good move personally.

Claudius

Ray wrote:
England international tax should get us £25m - £30m at least. Anything less than that and it’s pointless adding an obligation to buy.

If AMN is a £30m fullback, surely we should be keeping him given our fullback situation. Nobody is paying that for him in the recession.

Clrnc

Good move all round. I love AMN potential but it's probably time to move him on as Arteta don't rate him at all for one reason or another. 25m to 30m is fair value for him given that Leicester paid 20m+ for lesser players and he has english premium.

Newcastle needs CM too so Willock will get games there. Once his value goes up we can sell him too next summer.

Orny says we are seriously interested in Hakimi who wants to leave Inter. They willing to sell for 40m. That would be a perfect move for us in the summer

Gazza M

mustafi to schalke rumours gathering pace. kolasinac-mustafi reunion of a lifetime

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