Arsenal exits Jan 2022: Page 18 - The Arsenal discussion forum and community: One More in the Tolly

Arsenal exits Jan 2022

Big Willie

Ricky1985 wrote:
I am glad he is gone, but I will miss the player he was.

Moments of quality that will live forever in my memory. The assist to Aubameyang against Leicester is one of my favourite Arsenal moments. And Özil was in full on genius mode that night.

In his pomp, an amazing footballer.

The pass to Bellerin for Auba's first against Leicester was pretty special as well.

QuincyAbeyie

Big Willie wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Plenty of of players who couldn't dream of having Bergkamp ability keep great company with him in the record books. It's a meaningless comparison because it doesn't tell us anything about these guys' Arsenal careers compared to each other. What does it mean that a prime Özil assisted as much in a worse team as teenage Fabregas in a better team? Also, the way math works is that if you don’t play your stats don’t get worse or better so in terms of Daredevil's comparison all the time Özil has spent on the bench and the stands in the last two seasons doesn't count negatively for him.

Then that then leads to the questions if his form wasnt bad enough to warrant being benched then he could have done a job in the time he was frozen out.

I'm more of the opinion that his form did go down post 2017/18 which can be seen by his lack of telling contributions in most of his appearances since. Whilst it shows how bad poor he'd been since then it also highlights how good he was at his peak.

My point is that Özil is in a special situation. Generally you expect that the worse you get, the lesser your goals + assists per game will be. But after a certain point, when you're bad enough, you don't play at all. And then your goals + assists per game ratio is non-existent . So if Özil was slightly better in his last two seasons (as in good enough to stay on the bench and play some at least) his goals+assists per game ratio would be worse than it is when he's not good enough to play.

Big Willie

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
Then that then leads to the questions if his form wasnt bad enough to warrant being benched then he could have done a job in the time he was frozen out.

I'm more of the opinion that his form did go down post 2017/18 which can be seen by his lack of telling contributions in most of his appearances since. Whilst it shows how bad poor he'd been since then it also highlights how good he was at his peak.

My point is that Özil is in a special situation. Generally you expect that the worse you get, the lesser your goals + assists per game will be. But after a certain point, when you're bad enough, you don't play at all. And then your goals + assists per game ratio is non-existent . So if Özil was slightly better in his last two seasons (as in good enough to stay on the bench and play some at least) his goals+assists per game ratio would be worse than it is when he's not good enough to play.

You have a point when it comes to Ozil since the Covid Lockdown. But he did still play a decent amount of games in his last couple seasons until he was frozen out in March. Just looked it up and he played 35 games in 2018/19 (24 in the league) and 23 games last season (18 in the league). Both seasons he had really poor numbers (6G/3A in 2018/19 and 1G/3A in 2019/20) which definitely affected his numbers negatively.

Such a big drop off from even the 2017/18 season where he wasn't all that impressive other than the couple months before the contract extension during which he played 35 games (26 in the league) with 5G/14A. Shame he couldn't stay motivated/fit until the end.

deardevil

Big Willie wrote:
Don't think anyone has, have they? As far as I see the stats show Bergkamp first, Fabregas second and Ozil last out of the three.

To be fair, English isn't his first language so it explains why he consistently misreads things.

Tam

Big Willie wrote:
Seems he's taken a 290k (down from 350k) a week paycut to join them. Got a 4.5m sign on fee which works out to another 30k or so over the 3 years. So he's on about 90k a week all in.

Wouldn't he have been able to earn a lot more in the US with DC United who he was linked with?

Has there been any detail on any payoff from us? I'd bet a huge chunk of that £290k pay cut will be continued to be paid by us and he won't lose out much at all.

Big Willie

Tam wrote:
Big Willie wrote:
Seems he's taken a 290k (down from 350k) a week paycut to join them. Got a 4.5m sign on fee which works out to another 30k or so over the 3 years. So he's on about 90k a week all in.

Wouldn't he have been able to earn a lot more in the US with DC United who he was linked with?

Has there been any detail on any payoff from us? I'd bet a huge chunk of that £290k pay cut will be continued to be paid by us and he won't lose out much at all.

Possibly for the remainder of the season. I wasn't even factoring this because I'd have assumed we gave him a fair chunk to leave. I was thinking more in terms of how much he'd be making next season onwards as a salary cut from 350k down to 60k is a massive drop off.

Qwiss

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
deardevil wrote:
Dennis Bergkamp - 404 appearances - 200 goals + assists - 2.02
Cesc Fabregas - 304 appearances - 149 goals + assists - 2.04
Mesut Ozil - 254 appearances - 121 goals + assists - 2.09

What a meaningless comparison. Fabregas's appearances started when he was 16 and he was a CM for much of his time, Bergkamp's appearances lasted until his retirement aka way beyond his prime, while Özil was literally only here for what is typically the best years of a player's career.

Yeah I don't have any time for Cesc or Ozil but the Spaniard was way better for us than Ozil was. Anyone trying to put Ozil near Bergkamp needs their head looked at.

ohboy

Qwiss! wrote:
Quincy Abeyie wrote:
What a meaningless comparison. Fabregas's appearances started when he was 16 and he was a CM for much of his time, Bergkamp's appearances lasted until his retirement aka way beyond his prime, while Özil was literally only here for what is typically the best years of a player's career.

Yeah I don't have any time for Cesc or Ozil but the Spaniard was way better for us than Ozil was. Anyone trying to put Ozil near Bergkamp needs their head looked at.

Spot on.

Bergkamp’s determination and will to win was leagues above Ozil, never mind actual results.

I loved Ozil’s game, but the fact he leaves as a “cult figure” rather than someone who is revered for their performances tells its own story.

deardevil

Wenger did a number of legends a major service by allowing them to leave before they turned old. I don't want to imagine how quickly fans would have turned on an old and busted Henry earning 200k or whatever. Look at how quickly people started shitting on Aubameyang. Football fans are fickle as fuck.

Bergkamp was something else, though. Saying he was past his prime in his 30's is nonsense. He was still destroying teams in 2006 by ochestrating the entire offence. He evolved into a different player in his 30's.

goon

Yeah, both Sol and Freddie got a lot of abuse before leaving. Even Thierry got some in his final year, the usual 'he's mind is at Barcelona' nonsense. Though to be fair his attitude did stink that season.

HomeSteak

Soon.

goon

Good riddance. His tweet to Ozil about how the club let him down was a nonsense.

QuincyAbeyie

Surely it can't be normal just how many contract we have to terminate because it's impossible to get rid of the players otherwise.

flobaba

It’s not. That we negotiated some of these contracts 2 managers before the current manager who has his own ideas on how he wants his team to play, and who he wants to be involved, did not help much.

Meatwad

Quincy Abeyie wrote:
Surely it can't be normal just how many contract we have to terminate because it's impossible to get rid of the players otherwise.

players who are partly responsible for putting arsenal in the gutter won't have many paying suitors. at the level of wages we pay, we can't afford colossal mistakes because there aren't clubs below us who can afford them and the ones above definitely don't want them.

Ricky1985

HomeSteak wrote:

Soon.

Happy days.

Edu and Arteta righting a lot of the club's wrongs this month.

speedy

goon wrote:
Yeah, both Sol and Freddie got a lot of abuse before leaving. Even Thierry got some in his final year, the usual 'he's mind is at Barcelona' nonsense. Though to be fair his attitude did stink that season.

You mean the season he hadnt kicked a ball in a month and got put in straght in a game and he had a huge injury. Barca even launched an investigation about how someone so knackered passed a medical. We destroyed him that season.

KingslandBarge

Ricky1985 wrote:
Edu and Arteta righting a lot of the club's wrongs this month.

Thats basically how I see it. This may end up being a very good transfer window when looked at from the perspective of present imperatives and future positioning, but its also a kind of firesale rectification on some really poor actions of the summer winter windows prior to it.

If we can transfer Mustafi and organize fruitful loans for our youth players not sufficiently involved, it will have been pretty much all I could ask for. Smith-Rowe extension would be sweet.

Klaus

Ricky1985 wrote:
Edu and Arteta righting a lot of the club's wrongs this month.

Lots of squad cleaning to do. I just wish they hadn't added to it with twats like Willian and Cedric.

Sicario

Klaus wrote:
Ricky1985 wrote:
Edu and Arteta righting a lot of the club's wrongs this month.

Lots of squad cleaning to do. I just wish they hadn't added to it with twats like Willian and Cedric.

You shouldn’t put them together. Willian came in as a first team player....

Cedric is decent squad cover at RB. Having a Cedric is not going to cost you in the big picture. For example, Man Utd won various trophies a decade or so ago with Cedric type of back ups in their squad. Cedric played good v Newcastle last week no?

Criticism of the Cedric and Mari transfers have been over blown imo.

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