Didn't see that coming, probably because of the earlier talk re a 15m figure although that didn't make sense.

If Norwich want 40m is he still the #1 choice ahead of the likes of Brandt / Aouar so far as value for money?
Does his price then make him a starting player ahead of the likes of ESR, in which case would a loan for Isco make more sense if someone was to start ahead of ESR?

TBH as much as I want him here I'd rather put those options to a bid for Sabitzer as a genuine starting player who is a free agent in the summer.

Would also much rather Sabitzer at the quoted prices. The only thing that makes him interesting is the rumored Willock / Nelson trade in, but if we want to sell them, why not create a real open market for them and then just buy Sabitzer?

The only concern with Sabitzer is he does turn 27 in March. Buendia just turned 24 last week. So we’d be buying Sabitzer with little resale, his last big contract. While Buendia would have more runway to build a team and even be sold later if need be.

Chucking Nelson and/or Willock would be a shit deal. Just pay Norwich instead.

if we get emi, Willocks path to the first team is pretty tough. buendia, esr and willian would be ahead of him. Nelson is somewhat similar, with saka looking like he could lock down that right flank, with pepe and willian as back up. not surprised their names are coming up

Gazza M wrote:

if we get emi, Willocks path to the first team is pretty tough. buendia, esr and willian would be ahead of him. Nelson is somewhat similar, with saka looking like he could lock down that right flank, with pepe and willian as back up. not surprised their names are coming up

I don't see Willock as an AM.  IMO he's more in the Rambo mold of B2B/CMA.

If we didn’t waste the whole summer on Aouar we could have got Emi for a lot cheaper, and integrated into the squad. Too much dithering from Edu / Arteta. Hope they learn from that.

The more I think of it the more p*ssed I'd be if we ended up paying the equivalent of a 40m valuation on a player in a team that was relegated last summer, after not making a bid for him that same summer.
IMO it would be akin to AW refusing OL's 35m valuation on Lacazette one season, and then paying 15m+ more the following season.

Claudius wrote:

Would also much rather Sabitzer at the quoted prices. The only thing that makes him interesting is the rumored Willock / Nelson trade in, but if we want to sell them, why not create a real open market for them and then just buy Sabitzer?

The only concern with Sabitzer is he does turn 27 in March. Buendia just turned 24 last week. So we’d be buying Sabitzer with little resale, his last big contract. While Buendia would have more runway to build a team and even be sold later if need be.

27 used to be considered as entering the peak years 27-31.
If we're after resale sign him for 5-7 years and sell after 3-4.

Or why get Emi? I’m still nervous about how Norwich fans complain about his inconsistency and reliability. The type of stuff that we complain about with guys like Pépé etc pops up when they discuss him. We need to recruit talented players but we also need to ensure that every starter is someone we can depend on. More Tierneys.

Ray wrote:

If we didn’t waste the whole summer on Aouar we could have got Emi for a lot cheaper, and integrated into the squad. Too much dithering from Edu / Arteta. Hope they learn from that.

I think the plan was to convert to a 433, whereas the emergence of ESR has changed both the intended formation and the transfer needs/priorities both in terms of positions and role/attribute requirements.

Klaus wrote:

Chucking Nelson and/or Willock would be a shit deal. Just pay Norwich instead.

It's not clear in the independent article but it's been mentioned elsewhere that the kids going in the other direction would be on loan.

Claudius wrote:

Or why get Emi? I’m still nervous about how Norwich fans complain about his inconsistency and reliability. The type of stuff that we complain about with guys like Pépé etc pops up when they discuss him. We need to recruit talented players but we also need to ensure that every starter is someone we can depend on. More Tierneys.

Which is where I'm not sure I'd sign him as a starter as opposed to being part of a rotation roster, and less so @ 40m (not that I think that is a serious/realistic valuation post COVID).

goon wrote:

Klaus wrote:

Chucking Nelson and/or Willock would be a shit deal. Just pay Norwich instead.

It's not clear in the independent article but it's been mentioned elsewhere that the kids going in the other direction would be on loan.

That's a bonus, but still doesn't negate any 40m valuation.

Buendia - Partey - ESR midfield sounds tasty. Would be good for Nelson or Willock to go on loan and gain some experience too. Win-win deal for us potentially.

Claudius wrote:

Or why get Emi? I’m still nervous about how Norwich fans complain about his inconsistency and reliability. The type of stuff that we complain about with guys like Pépé etc pops up when they discuss him. We need to recruit talented players but we also need to ensure that every starter is someone we can depend on. More Tierneys.

What do they mean by inconsistent? He's always looked technically consistent to me. His g/a and stats in general look pretty decent for a young player too.

He feels like the sort of player Liverpool would snap up to me. 

No chance I pay £40mil

Norwich are having a laugh.

Go after Brandt and then in the summer revisit this and Aouar.

40m for a Championship player?

Out of curiosity, what's the most expensive Championship player ever? I found Maddison to Leicester for £22m and Bowen to West Ham for £22m.

Ole Watkins? That was around £32m or something. Benrahma was about £30m in total too I think.

Also is Buendia definitely going to start? What’s the plan that people see?

To be fair I wouldn't sell if I were Norwich either given how much promotion would make them.

goon wrote:

To be fair I wouldn't sell if I were Norwich either given how much promotion would make them.

Yeah I think that is fair.

It doesn't benefit Norwich to sell him now, and it is a position that is completely understandable.

We should move on to other targets, as there is no way Buendia is worth anything close to that right now.

Gazza M wrote:

if we get emi, Willocks path to the first team is pretty tough. buendia, esr and willian would be ahead of him. Nelson is somewhat similar, with saka looking like he could lock down that right flank, with pepe and willian as back up. not surprised their names are coming up

I'd feel the opposite if I were them, I think. Willock is more of a box to box player than a playmaker, and I think he'll look much better if we have someone like Smith-Rowe in the team. His touch is not good enough to play in that congested space but he has a bunch of unique attributes relative to the rest of our midfielders.

Nelson has an even clearer path in the medium term. Willian is blatantly useless and there's no way Pepé is going to stick around for too long either if he's Arteta's third choice. His agent is probably eyeing moves in the summer right now. Saka is a different matter, but he could play virtually anywhere. Nelson turned 21 like a week ago. He's in a great position to capitalise if he's a little patient.

Claudius wrote:

Also is Buendia definitely going to start? What’s the plan that people see?

Yes, without question I think. He's a classy player. But you have to ask what our intentions are for the squad we've already got. We have one player in Smith-Rowe who is working right now, even if he has only started a few games. If we believe in Smith-Rowe we should back him, at least until the summer. I don't believe in half measures: you're either fully behind him or you think he needs to be upgraded (in which case you're probably not going to find your ideal player in January).

There are secondary concerns about squad depth and 'competition' and all that crap, but those are luxury problems. The main concern is whether we have a team that works or not, and whether we want to upset it. I'm a big fan of Buendia personally, but if Arteta had felt the same about him we would probably have signed him six months ago. He needs to start backing the players he has that are actually good.

When the first choice player is someone as injury-prone as Smith-Rowe, I think depth is not a luxury but a necessity, especially in a position that has caused us so much grief this season. I'd be in favour of bringing in Buendia even as backup for Smith-Rowe as long as the price reflects that (30M or below). Else, the next time Smith-Rowe has an injury, we see Willian playing there. Another big plus point for Buendia is that he is generally available and you can't help win any points for your team if you are in the physio room.

Injury-proneness is a good point, it's the thing that concerns me the most about Smith-Rowe too.

Klaus wrote:

Gazza M wrote:

if we get emi, Willocks path to the first team is pretty tough. buendia, esr and willian would be ahead of him. Nelson is somewhat similar, with saka looking like he could lock down that right flank, with pepe and willian as back up. not surprised their names are coming up

I'd feel the opposite if I were them, I think. Willock is more of a box to box player than a playmaker, and I think he'll look much better if we have someone like Smith-Rowe in the team. His touch is not good enough to play in that congested space but he has a bunch of unique attributes relative to the rest of our midfielders.

Nelson has an even clearer path in the medium term. Willian is blatantly useless and there's no way Pepé is going to stick around for too long either if he's Arteta's third choice. His agent is probably eyeing moves in the summer right now. Saka is a different matter, but he could play virtually anywhere. Nelson turned 21 like a week ago. He's in a great position to capitalise if he's a little patient.

I'm speaking based on the evidence of artetas selections, not what I'd prefer to see. yes pepe and willian have been poor, but I don't see them falling below nelson. one is a 70m investment, the other is the managers choice and would've already been promised playing time

willock has been unconvincing outside the odd Europa games. he has some interesting qualities, but like nketiah I'm not convinced he'll make the grade, or lock down a position under arteta ahead of the guys competing for the areas he plays in

we shouldn't be betting the farm on ESR after 3 games either. he's injury prone and its not clear what his level could be. getting a creative player in is essential

Klaus wrote:

Injury-proneness is a good point, it's the thing that concerns me the most about Smith-Rowe too.

Yeah, exactly. I'm optimistic but even still don't believe that proneness will flatten till 23+. At 19 aren't athletes still undergoing physiological changes that influence performance? He's undercooked for the itinerary ahead and we can't be exacerbating the injury trap like we did with bygone talents. Which Is why I totally agree with your Özil perspective, its just hard talking about it on this forum.

KingslandBarge wrote:

Klaus wrote:

Injury-proneness is a good point, it's the thing that concerns me the most about Smith-Rowe too.

Yeah, exactly. I'm optimistic but even still don't believe that proneness will flatten till 23+. At 19 aren't athletes still undergoing physiological changes that influence performance? He's undercooked for the itinerary ahead and we can't be exacerbating the injury trap like we did with bygone talents. Which Is why I totally agree with your Özil perspective, its just hard talking about it on this forum.

What’s the Ozil perspective? That we use him for 6 months?

romano joins the bandwagon

and an argie journey, though he's quoting Romano

Claudius wrote:

KingslandBarge wrote:

Yeah, exactly. I'm optimistic but even still don't believe that proneness will flatten till 23+. At 19 aren't athletes still undergoing physiological changes that influence performance? He's undercooked for the itinerary ahead and we can't be exacerbating the injury trap like we did with bygone talents. Which Is why I totally agree with your Özil perspective, its just hard talking about it on this forum.

What’s the Ozil perspective? That we use him for 6 months?

Yep in a way. Sorry, think I unfairly dragged Klaus into that who I believe suggested it was a bad decision not to register him by the summer deadline given that we didn't strengthen in that area. I'm on my own accord taking that further to say it will be a bad decision if we do not register him by the winter deadline if we fail to strengthen. I could go further but I just think it kind spirals out anytime he's mentioned.

KingslandBarge wrote:

Claudius wrote:

What’s the Ozil perspective? That we use him for 6 months?

Yep in a way. Sorry, think I unfairly dragged Klaus into that who I believe suggested it was a bad decision not to register him by the summer deadline given that we didn't strengthen in that area. I'm on my own accord taking that further to say it will be a bad decision if we do not register him by the winter deadline if we fail to strengthen. I could go further but I just think it kind spirals out anytime he's mentioned.

Creatively he would help, although I'm not convinced that he would press and help out defensively, not that he would actually produce. 

We also have to weigh up whether it is worth it trying to integrate him back into the squad, only to know he will be gone again in a few months. Plus the message it sends to others in the group allowing him back in.

ohboy!!! wrote:

Creatively he would help, although I'm not convinced that he would press and help out defensively, not that he would actually produce. 

We also have to way up whether it is worth it trying to integrate him back into the squad, only to know he will be gone again in a few months. Plus the message it sends to others in the group allowing him back in.

Yep, at this stage it's kinda moot, the damage is done, but there's no one who can convince me that we've been better off for the last few months while Özil has been sitting at home. We were creating the least chances in the whole league before Smith-Rowe came along.

I think it's an indictment on Arteta, and I dislike managers who feel the need to put their foot down even though it's to the overall detriment of the team. Which it's safe so say it has been, since we were 15th in the table as little as a week ago. There's no rhyme and reason to these arbitrary wars he's waging either. Luiz and him can have a fallout to the point where they're not talking for months and he still gets games. Willian can do whatever he wants; he can fuck off to Abu Dhabi on an off day when he's supposed to be at home and nothing happens, he can visit corona parties and he still gets included. He can play like an absolute sack of shit for half a season and the only consequence is more playing time. I have never seen Özil half as bad as that fraud, yet he and Guendouzi are the ones who get ostracised. Saliba doesn't even get registered, nor is he sent on loan, and Arteta comments on his 'professional issues' when he gets criticised for it. And then we end up with so many injuries in the central defence that we have to reinstate the likes of Mustafi again while Saliba is playing U23 matches. Brilliant management.

I'm kinda fed up talking about it too so I won't comment on it any further, but he's been a weak manager so far, constanty picking the wrong battles and backing the wrong horses. Which is basically why I want him to back Smith-Rowe now; actually back him instead of throwing money on a player that isn't one of his first choices anyway. We have a far better squad than people on OMIT seem to think we do. We have in-house solutions that are good and deserve playing time, and we constantly see how much better off we are for playing them. Part of Arteta's job when he took over was to bring these young players through, because it's the only way we're going to make up ground when our competition is the likes of Chelsea, who spend £250 million on players in a single summer. We're certainly not going to do it by signing their rejects.

Backing the youth is a commitment that is actually hugely important considering where we are right now. And that means you can't have more fucking Willians and Cedrics; and you can't chuck Nelson and Willock just to sign Buendia to put in front of Smith-Rowe right when he's coming along. I think I'm a bigger fan of Buendia than anyone around here and would love to have him, but he'll still be there in the summer if we need him, just like he was last summer when we were completely uninterested. Right now Smith-Rowe deserves time and we should hang onto the other two.

We don’t even really know what the Ozil issue is about. A bit like Ramsey wasn’t a coaching issue. I just want him gone so it’s over. Not because I’m particularly against him.

Really? You don’t know what the Ozil issue is about by now? Come on, man.

No Klaus, you’re picking the wrong horse and backing the wrong player in Ozil. All the managers since Emery was hounded out have seen the same thing, and have dropped him, but no, they are all crazy.

And Willock is poor. Just like Eddie is poor. Just like AMN is poor. I’ve told you guys this, and it’s beginning to be clear. but you know, what do I know.

Yeah, same, the team environment needs to be happy. I really hope Ozil and the club can find a solution. His signing seemed like a watershed moment for the club. Shame the way it's ending. As for Buendia, I am not a big fan but he adds top draw technique, the ability to dictate tempo and get out of tight spaces. The games will come thick and fast. We have multiple routes to Europe and given how tight the season is anything is possible. I am under no illusion of us having turned a corner but I also don't want to underestimate the power of momentum. We got a run of games we should win and then the positivity can really drive us just like the negativity dragged us. And if it takes a signing to create a bit of excitement and add missing attributes, we should go for it. I just don't know if Buendia is the one to go for or someone else but I think we need depth in that position ESR plays in. Time for Arteta and Edu to justify the millions they make.

flobaba wrote:

And Willock is poor. Just like Eddie is poor. Just like AMN is poor. I’ve told you guys this, and it’s beginning to be clear. but you know, what do I know.

The people at Wolves wanted to buy AMN for £20m and the people at Arsenal would rather keep him, but no, they are all crazy.